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This is an exercise in critical thinking. I am not looking, therefore, for opinions on the matter; rather: I would like to know the evidence (whatever that might mean).

Background:

I have a longstanding interest in different types of logic:

I have read (most of) Goldblatt's, "Topoi: A Categorial Analysis of Logic." I stopped doing the exercises entirely in its fourteenth chapter.

I'm aware of "The Uses and Abuses of the History of Topos Theory," but it's behind a paywall I can't afford.

I have read most of Priest's, "An Introduction to Nonclassical Logic, Second Edition: From If to Is," although I don't recall much on intuitionism, from what I have read.

A recent, private conversation I had online called into question the legitimacy - the efficacy, the applicability, the rigour - of topos theory and its implications about constructive mathematics.

The Question:

Are the different logics given by topoi legitimate?

Thoughts:

What do I mean by, "legitimate"?

Well, not to be glib, I mean the second sense as given by this Google search:

able to be defended with logic or justification; valid.

I find it difficult to improve upon that definition.

What kind of answer am I looking for?

I'm not sure. Perhaps a list of reputable academics - like Prof. Peter Johnstone - working in the area, alongside a brief summary of their position on intuitionism and/or constructivist logic; I don't know. Some applications wouldn't go amiss. Suggestions on further reading are welcome.

Please help :)

Shaun
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    I'm honestly not sure what this question means. Certainly there's no issue of rigor that I can see since topoi, and their internal logics, are precisely defined objects - moreover, as such they can be used as tools even in a classical context (see e.g. here). As for whether they are philosophically defensible - whatever that means - that seems more of a question for philosophy.stackexchange. (And quite frankly I find the "definition" of legitimacy completely unhelpful.) – Noah Schweber Apr 03 '20 at 18:53
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    Most topos theorists I've spoken to or read have a decidedly pragmatic approach to the internal logics of toposes: they're simply the correct logic for reasoning about objects in that setting. Philosophically, since intuitionistic logic is a subsystem of classical logic, the question isn't whether intuitionistic logic is justifiable (both the intuitionist and classical logician will agree on it), but whether classical logic is. – Malice Vidrine Apr 03 '20 at 19:03
  • Thank you for the feedback, @NoahSchweber. During the conversation I referred to in the background section, I found myself unable to counter the skepticism regarding topoi and their internal & external logics. I put it down to my own personal ignorance, mostly, but the seed of doubt was sown. I'm not sure how I can make this question any clearer. I'm sorry. As for the "definition" of legitimate: well, I wanted to show what I've gathered on the matter of its meaning, that's all . . . – Shaun Apr 03 '20 at 19:03
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    You might find something helpful in the papers of John L. Bell, whose last position was as a Professor of Philosophy. – Calum Gilhooley Apr 03 '20 at 19:21
  • Oops! I see that Bell is mentioned in the article by McLarty that you referred to, so you presumably knew of him already. – Calum Gilhooley Apr 03 '20 at 19:31
  • I hadn't heard of Bell until now, @CalumGilhooley. Thank you for the link :) – Shaun Apr 03 '20 at 19:33
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    "the skepticism regarding topoi and their internal & external logics." What exactly is that skepticism? That's the point I'm still unclear on. I personally have no interest in intuitionism from a foundational standpoint, but I wouldn't say I'm "skeptical" of it, and I certainly do have interest in it from a mathematical viewpoint. – Noah Schweber Apr 03 '20 at 20:39
  • @NoahSchweber: One snippet of that skepticism is, and I quote, "you're trying to use the geometric study of topological space and trying to assert it as some rhetorical tool of some sort... for some reason. it all makes little to no sense at all" - and - "so yea... we have equations that allow us to study areas of topilogical (sic) space that behave as sheaves... big effing deal." Also, I was said to be presenting a "word salad" when I tried to give a defence of the subject. I don't, therefore, have a firm enough grasp of the subject to explain it to others. – Shaun Apr 03 '20 at 20:48
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    @Shaun I have to say that I don't understand that snippet. I guess I don't understand what specific claim either you or they are arguing for. – Noah Schweber Apr 03 '20 at 20:50
  • My claim was that classical logic is not the only logic in town, with the logics put forward by topoi being examples, @NoahSchweber. That claim was dismissed as nonsense. I tried to explain the topos $\mathbf{M}_2$ alluded to above, with $1$ corresponding to "really true," $0$ corresponding to "kind of true," and the multiplication table $$\begin{array}{c|cc}\mathbf{M}_2&0&1\ \hline 0&0&0\ 1&0&1\end{array}.$$ – Shaun Apr 03 '20 at 21:01
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    I mean this ultimately just comes down to the issue of what constitutes "logic." I'm more of a mathematician than a philosopher so to me intuitionistic logic is clearly a logic (although I definitely think classical logic has a uniquely special role). Someone who takes a more philosophical line has to explain what they mean - and my experiences along these lines have not generally been positive. – Noah Schweber Apr 03 '20 at 21:03
  • Why so many downvotes? – Shaun Dec 07 '21 at 21:30
  • Why so many downvotes? Oh well, for some people here becoming awake is already a provocation. And you're still lucky! They have voted away here two questions of mine, but I have backups: Is it possible to prove that $\mathbb{N}={}$? , How about Cantor's Theory in a Finite context? . – Han de Bruijn Dec 13 '21 at 11:04

2 Answers2

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I think I would answer by a combination of the following, though I'm not absolutely positive that this answers your question. Please feel free to engage in a discussion :-)

  1. What the internal logic of a given topos turns out to be is just a fact of life, hence to a certain degree any philosophical concerns about the logic go beside the point: Sure, I would love the axiom of choice to be true internally to any topos, but that is just plain false, irrespective of my metatheory.
  2. The internal logic of some specific toposes is particularly interesting and one can well argue for their merit on general philosophical (non-topos-theoretic) grounds. For instance, the internal logic of $\mathrm{Set}$ is ordinary classical logic (assuming classical logic on the meta level -- else consider the "smallest dense subtopos of $\mathrm{Set}$", this topos always validates classical logic even if your metatheory does not), the internal language of the effective topos is "Russian constructivism" and so on.
  3. Yes, one perspective on the internal logic of toposes is that it is just a rhetorical tool for simplifying working with the toposes. However, I would take issue with the word "just". For instance:
  • The external translation of the internal statement "$f$ is injective" made about some morphism $f : F \to G$ of sheaves on a topological space $X$ is just that all the components $f_U : F(U) \to G(U)$ are injective. Hence the internal statement and the external one are more or less of the same complexity. Judging merely from this example, it's easy to get the impression that the internal language is not very interesting.
  • However, the external translations of the internal statements "any nonunit of $\mathcal{O}_{\mathrm{Spec}(A)}$ is zero" and "any ideal of $\mathcal{O}_{\mathrm{Spec}(A)}$ is not not finitely generated" (valid if $A$ is an arbitrary reduced ring, not necessarily a field or Noetherian) are quite unwieldy. (See for instance page 22 of these notes for the translation of one of these.) You could not easily use them in ordinary proofs. They are accessible to us only thanks to the internal language machinery. And it turns out that they are quite useful in some situations. For instance, the proof of Grothendieck's generic freeness lemma in algebraic geometry can be shortened to just a short conceptual paragraph of text if those statements are employed. In a couple of days you will find the details of this example spelled out in this early draft.
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I just see topoi as a generalization of the concept of powerset.

A topos can be viewed as a subcategory of a category of presheafs preserving a bunch of the nice properties of a category of presheafs.

A category of presheafs $[C^{\text{op}}, \text{Set}]$ is not really so different from a set of subsets $[X, 2]$ but just a higher version of the concept. You can think of prestacks $[C^{\text{op}}, \text{Grpd}]$ or displayed categories $\text{Lax}[C, \text{Span}]$ (lax double functors into Span) or any number of other variations on the concept.

My take is it is only a coincidence that presheafs in $\text{Cat}$ happen to be "nice places to do math in" and really the core concepts of subobjects and indexing are very unrelated.

Now it seems to me that of course subobjects in $\text{Set}$ are going to reflect the nature of $\text{Set}$ and be "nice" in certain ways mathematicians might like. The same goes for fields of sets in $\text{Set}$. I think the same probably goes for sheaves in $\text{Cat}$. I think the "logical validity" of categories of sheaves ought to be valid so much as you believe $\text{Cat}$ is logically valid.

Unfortunately $\text{Cat}$ isn't really a nice place to work. But figuring out how to "fix" category theory is really hard. The problems get really bad in higher category theory. For example, in many respects simplicial sets are nicer than infinity categories but I severely doubt some sort of concept of "field of simplicial sets" is really what you want.

But anyway here is my argument. Sheaves in $\text{Cat}$ are bad because $\text{Cat}$ is bad. It's perfectly reasonable to find some alternative formalization (the category of comonads with respect to composition in the category of polynomial endofunctors for example) and figuring out an alternative perhaps nicer behaved notion of sheaf. There's lots of research to make category theory "nicer." It's just it's far easier to say "topoi are nice places to do math in" than to say "topoi are a kind of a bodge but they mostly work except for a few perverse examples."

Now personally I don't believe in "logical validity" at all. I consider myself a formalist and the dual $\text{Set}^{\text{op}}$ is just as logically valid as $\text{Set}$ as far as pushing symbols around goes anyhow. Personally I think the concept of topos is bad because topoi are way too strong for my own purposes of substructural logic and programming languages. The Kappa calculus doesn't even have exponentials much less subobject classifiers.