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I am working on a project presentation and would like to illustrate that it is often difficult or impossible to estimate how long a task would take. I’d like to make the point by presenting three math problems (proofs, probably) that on the surface look equally challenging. But…

  • One is simple to solve (or prove)
  • One is complex to solve (or prove)
  • And one is impossible

So if a mathematician can’t simply look at a problem and say, “I can solve that in a day, or a week, or a month, how can anyone else that is truly solving a problem? The very nature of problem solving is that we don’t know where the solutions lies and therefore we don’t know how long it will take to get there.

Any input or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Pedro
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Judy
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    How about Fermat's Last Theorem? We can find a, b, c such that $a^2 +b^2=c^2$, so that's easy. But for higher exponents.... – The Chaz 2.0 Dec 06 '11 at 00:13
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    We could also prove that 2 is irrational, but various results for $e$ and $\pi$ are known to be unknown – The Chaz 2.0 Dec 06 '11 at 00:14
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    While I am not sure about the core subject of your project, I would like to bring your attention that the assumption of "I am working on a project presentation and would like to illustrate that it is often difficult or impossible to estimate how long a task would take. " is not always correct. There are tons of engineering and construction and manufacturing projects that complete on time. Take building a car for example. – NoChance Dec 06 '11 at 00:41
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    @Emmad: This, this, and this beg to differ. – J. M. ain't a mathematician Dec 06 '11 at 00:58
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    "...it is often difficult or impossible to estimate how long a task would take." Just for fun, you might reference Hofstadter's Law. – Austin Mohr Dec 06 '11 at 01:01
  • @J.M., I really think that lots of organizations and individuals have mastered the estimation process of producing products. Pizza shops, Teachers, etc. all can deliver in a very predictable time. Innovative tasks may be different. – NoChance Dec 06 '11 at 01:02
  • This thread might be of some help: http://mathoverflow.net/questions/24913/quick-proofs-of-hard-theorems/24940#24940 –  Dec 06 '11 at 01:50
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    I think you should mind your use of the word "impossible". In mathematics there really are problems that have been proven impossible to solve. – Quinn Culver Dec 06 '11 at 04:41
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    More Fermat's Last Theorem (I don't know what kind of audience you will have; they may be very unimpressed hehe): Finding all positive-integer solutions to $2^a + 2^b = 2^c$, or even $n^a + n^b = n^c$, is trivial; you'll want an intro to number theory course under your belt for $a^2 + b^2 = c^2$, and we all know the story with $a^n + b^n = c^n$. – JohnJamesSmith Dec 06 '11 at 04:44
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    @Emmad - Building a car is very different to designing a car. In software development, there's some disagreement over where the line between design and construction lies - see http://martinfowler.com/articles/newMethodology.html for an unconventional but compelling view. The same is probably true in mathematics - there's "design" (new models, proofs etc) and "construction" (following standard procedures). The latter may be fairly predictable, but the former clearly isn't. –  Dec 06 '11 at 06:04
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    @JohnJamesSmith "Finding all positive-integer solutions to $\ldots n^a+n^b=n^c$ is trivial." Isn't that Fermat's First Theorem: The equation $n^a + n^b = n^c$ has no solution in integers $a, b, c$ for $n > 2$? – Dilip Sarwate Dec 08 '11 at 13:33
  • Not what you're asking, but I'm reminded of a funny quote: The Axiom of Choice is obviously true, the Well-Ordering Principle is obviously false, and who can say about Zorn's Lemma? – Austin Mohr Jun 24 '14 at 07:26

14 Answers14

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This isn't exactly what you're asking for, but it should serve the same purpose very nicely.

Hilbert gave a talk in 1920 or so in which he discussed the difficulty of various problems.

He said that great progress had been made in analytic number theory in recent years, and he expected to live to see a proof of the Riemann Hypothesis.

Fermat's Last Theorem, he said, was harder; maybe the youngest members of his audience would live to see a proof.

But the problem of determining whether $2^{\sqrt2}$ is transcendental was so hard that not even the children of the youngest people in the audience would live to see a solution to that one.

With the benefit of hindsight, we can see that Hilbert had it exactly backwards.

$2^{\sqrt2}$ was settled in 1929 - Hilbert lived to see it.

Fermat, as we know, held out until the 1990s.

And the Riemann Hypothesis is still unsettled.

The point of the story is not to make fun of Hilbert. The point of the story is that if even Hilbert, the strongest mathematician of his era, could be so wrong in judging the relative difficulty of various mathematical problems, then it must be a really hard thing to do - which, I think, is the point you are trying to make.

Austin Mohr
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Gerry Myerson
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    This is a great answer. It can be appreciated by a general audience even if people don't know what Fermat's last theorem or the Riemann hypothesis are about. – KCd Dec 06 '11 at 04:52
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    Gerry, the irrationality of $2^{\sqrt{2}}$ probably should be replaced by its transcendence, since Hilbert's 7th problem was about transcendence of such numbers. – KCd Dec 06 '11 at 05:02
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    @KCd, yes, transcendence would be better. – Gerry Myerson Dec 06 '11 at 05:28
  • @GerryMyerson Interesting. I was not aware that Hilbert said that he expected to live to see a proof of the Riemann Hypothesis. I read in the book "The music of the primes" the following statement "If I were to awaken after having slept for a thousand years, my first question would be: Has the Riemann hypothesis been proven?" This made me think that Hilbert believed that RH was a really tough nut to crack compared to the other problems he posed. –  Jun 15 '12 at 07:08
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    @Marvis, it could be that Hilbert just thought RH was more important than the other problems. Or it could be that developments during the years between the two quotes caused him to change his mind about the difficulty. Or it could be that Hilbert wasn't fettered by consistency, the hobgoblin of small minds. – Gerry Myerson Jun 15 '12 at 11:33
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    Just in case somebody is interested: $2^\sqrt{2}$ is irrational and a transcendental number. It is called Gelfond–Schneider constant. – Martin Thoma Sep 12 '12 at 06:09
  • @GerryMyerson Here is a quote from Conrey's expository article on RH(http://www.ams.org/notices/200303/fea-conrey-web.pdf) that vindicates both our views. "Hilbert seems to have had somewhat contradictory views about the difficulty of RH. On one occasion he compared three unsolved problems: the transcendence of $2^{\sqrt{2}}$, Fermat’s Last Theorem, and the Riemann Hypothesis. In his view, RH would likely be solved in a few years, Fermat’s Last Theorem possibly in his lifetime, and the transcendence question possibly never. Amazingly, the transcendence question was resolved a few years later –  Oct 19 '12 at 06:25
  • by Gelfond and Schneider, and, of course, Andrew Wiles recently proved Fermat’s Last Theorem. Another time Hilbert remarked that if he were to awake after a sleep of five hundred years, the first question he would ask was whether RH was solved" on right side of page $344$. –  Oct 19 '12 at 06:26
  • @Gerry Meyerson: Could you give a reference on this 1920 talk? – Alexandre Eremenko Apr 14 '16 at 17:52
  • @Alexandre, I'll try to track it down. Julian Havil mentions the incident on page 199 of his book, The Irrationals, placing the talk in 1928. The story is also told in John Derbyshire's book, Prime Obsession. – Gerry Myerson Apr 14 '16 at 22:48
  • @Gerry Myerson: If I understood you correctly, there are no references in these books? – Alexandre Eremenko Apr 15 '16 at 02:03
  • @Alexandre, I don't have the books in front of me, only what I can see on Google Books, but my impression from what I can see is that neither book gives any further specifics. – Gerry Myerson Apr 15 '16 at 02:41
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    @Alexandre: R. Tijdeman, Hilbert's Seventh Problem – On the Gel'fond-Baker method and its Applications, in the book, Mathematical Developments Arising from the Hilbert Problems, Proc Symp Pure Math XXVIII, writes on pp 242-243, "Siegel, who came to Gottingen as a student in 1919, was always to remember a lecture which he heard from Hilbert at this time (See Reid (1970) p. 164). Hilbert mentioned Riemann's hypothesis and said that there had recently been much progress and that he was very hopeful that he himself would live to see it proved. Fermat's problem had been around [continued] – Gerry Myerson Apr 15 '16 at 09:08
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    [continued] for a long time and apparently demanded entirely new methods for its solution; perhaps the youngest members of the audience would live to see it solved. However, as for establishing the transcendence of $2^{\sqrt2}$, no one present in the lecture hall would live to see that." The reference is to Reid's biography, Hilbert, which I don't have handy. It would appear that in the answer I posted, I invented the part about the children, but other than that I mostly remembered what I had once read. – Gerry Myerson Apr 15 '16 at 09:11
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    @Gerry Myerson: Thanks. Now I know where I learned this story from: this is Reid's Hilbert:-) Hilbert was right about Fermat's problem, by the way. – Alexandre Eremenko Apr 15 '16 at 12:52
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    Last week I learned about another Hilbert story where he said something wouldn't be proved in his lifetime that was solved just a couple of years later. In 1910 Lorentz guessed an asymptotic formula for a count of eigenvalues of the Laplacian in a domain and Hilbert said it wouldn't be proved in his lifetime. His own student Weyl gave a proof in 1911 that led to Weyl's law. – KCd Apr 12 '17 at 04:01
  • @KCd, in Kac, Can one hear the shape of a drum?, Amer Math Monthly 73(4) (1966) 1-23, it says, "There is an apocryphal report that Hilbert predicted that the theorem would not be proved in his life time." I wonder whether it can be traced back to anything authoritative. – Gerry Myerson Apr 12 '17 at 07:17
  • I don't know, but people working in spectral geometry sure seem to like to repeat this story. – KCd Apr 12 '17 at 12:22
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For an integer $n$, let's seek integral solutions of $x^3 + y^3 + z^3 = n$.

1) When $n = 29$ a solution is easy to find: $(x,y,z) = (3,1,1)$.

2) When $n = 33$ it is harder to find a solution, but one is known: $$ (x,y,z) = (8866128975287528, -8778405442862239, -2736111468807040). $$ This was found in 2019 by Andrew Booker. See https://people.maths.bris.ac.uk/~maarb/papers/cubesv1.pdf and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASoz_NuIvP0.

3) Here I had earlier used $n = 42$, saying we expect it is a sum of three cubes in $\mathbf Z$ but that no representation of $42$ in that form was currently known at the time I wrote that. Now (Sept. 2019) a representation is known: $42 = (-80538738812075974)^3 + 80435758145817515^3 + 12602123297335631^3$. I don't want to keep updating this answer again and again, so I'll just say we expect each integer $n \not\equiv 4, 5 \bmod 9$ is a sum of three cubes in $\mathbf Z$ and for such general $n$ this is still an open problem.

KCd
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    Numberphile: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wymmCdLdPvM has a nice video. – Mark S Feb 25 '18 at 15:19
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    Yes, that appeared a few years after my post here. The follow-up video to that one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-M_3oV75Lw. – KCd Feb 25 '18 at 19:54
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    I used to have $n = 30$ for the second choice and $n = 33$ for the third choice, but now that a representation for $33$ is known I have moved that to the second position and put another $n$ with an unknown but expected representation in the third position. – KCd Mar 10 '19 at 11:30
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One set that (I think) meets your requirements and for which the statements are accessible to many:

  1. Prove that $\sqrt{2}$ is irrational
  2. Prove that $e$ is irrational
  3. Prove that $e+\pi$ is irrational
2'5 9'2
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    Is 3. "impossible"? – Quinn Culver Dec 06 '11 at 04:34
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    I might be mistaken, but I thought the sum of two irrational numbers was always irrational. If that's not true, can you give a counterexample? – Peter Olson Dec 06 '11 at 04:54
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    @Quinn, not necessarily. But it's an unanswered question to date. – 2'5 9'2 Dec 06 '11 at 04:56
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    @Peter How about $\sqrt{2}+(-\sqrt{2})$? Or if you'd prefer $\sqrt{2}+(1-\sqrt{2})$. Basically, rational numbers make a vector subspace of $\mathbb{R}$, and irrationals just make the complement. There are always lots of ways to add two things from the complement of a subspace and land inside the subspace. – 2'5 9'2 Dec 06 '11 at 04:57
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    @alex.jordan, you are of course referring to vector spaces over the rationals, not over the reals, as the rationals do not form a real vector space. Or perhaps you are dealing with subgroups, rather than vector subspaces. – Gerry Myerson Dec 06 '11 at 05:36
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    @Gerry Yes, I mean $\mathbb{R}$ as a $\mathbb{Q}$-vector space. I really just want to put it out there that when "subthings" are additively closed, complements of "subthings" are usually not. – 2'5 9'2 Dec 06 '11 at 06:38
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A famous example, although it might require more background than you'd like, is Burnside's problem, which asks the following: if a group is finitely-generated and has the property that every element has order $n$ for some fixed positive integer $n$, is it necessarily finite?

  • For $n = 2$ the answer is yes by a straightforward argument. If $a, b$ are two elements of the group, then $a^2 = b^2 = (ab)^2 = e$ implies $ab = ba$, so the group is abelian and has order dividing $2^m$ where $m$ is the number of generators.
  • For $n = 3, 4, 6$ the answer is still yes, but the argument is more difficult.
  • For $n = 5$ the problem is still open! (I think. According to Wikipedia, at the very least the specific case of two generators is still open.)
Qiaochu Yuan
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    Would definitely require more background than what my intended audience will have, but it is a great example. Thank you! – Judy Dec 06 '11 at 15:48
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It's easy to multiply two 20-digit prime numbers, but what if you had to factor their product? There you have an easy problem and a hard problem.

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    It's not easy to multiply two 20-digit numbers by hand. It is easy to multiply two 20-digit numbers by computer, but it's also easy to factor a 40-digit number by computer. Change that 20 to 200 and I think I'll go along. – Gerry Myerson Dec 06 '11 at 05:34
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    I believe I could multiply two 20-digit prime numbers by hand within a couple of hours, but I could not factor their product. – Michael Hardy Dec 06 '11 at 18:52
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    You overestimate the difficulty of multiplying by hand, I think. It’s 400 single-digit multiplications plus 40 sums of no more than 21 numbers. Shouldn’t take more than 15 or 20 minutes, by my reckoning. – Jon Purdy Dec 08 '11 at 13:25
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    Well, I said "within". I was being cautious. So I can do that, but I can't factor the product by hand. – Michael Hardy Dec 08 '11 at 17:30
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    https://mathoverflow.net/questions/207321/how-did-cole-factor-267-1-in-1903 (also: https://mathoverflow.net/a/325126/88133) – Zach Teitler Sep 02 '19 at 02:53
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Take a look at the suggestions and the comments of each one.

Suggestions:

1 - $x^{x^{x^{x^{\cdot^{{\cdot}^{\cdot}}}}}}=2$, Solve for $x$.

2 - Poincaré conjecture (Every simply connected, closed 3-manifold is homeomorphic to the 3-sphere.).

3 - The Continuum Hypothesis (First Hilbert problem). This question is indecidible.

Comments:

1 - This problem looks a very hard one. How to find $x$ when we raised it to it infinite times and this should be equal to $2$.

The truth is this problem could be solved on a "easy" way. See this my own question.

2 - This question is a very hard one. It has proved by Grigori Perelman. See this link for more details.

3 - This question is "impossible" because is indecidible and find a final answer isn't possible. Reference.

GarouDan
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  • To be more precise: Perelman proved Thurston's conjecture; Poincaré drops out as a side result. – J. M. ain't a mathematician Dec 06 '11 at 18:46
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    +1 for only person to mention a problem that is actually "impossible" (as opposed to all the others who listed open problems) – BlueRaja - Danny Pflughoeft Dec 07 '11 at 21:28
  • Thx @BlueRaja-DannyPflughoeft . I really like these problems, I think they are very interesting ones. – GarouDan Dec 07 '11 at 21:31
  • regarding #1, consider y=x^x: for x>1, y>x; for x=1, y=1; for x<1, y<x. If you now apply 'y' to the same problem z=x^y, on to infinity, the only possible results of x raised to itself an infinite number of times are: 0 (for any x<1), 1 (for x=1), or infinity (for any x>1) – Paul Ostrowski Dec 08 '11 at 21:27
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    @PaulOstrowski, $\sqrt{2}^{\sqrt{2}^{\sqrt{2}^{\ldots}}}=2$. So, that question have a solution. – GarouDan Dec 08 '11 at 22:22
  • sqrt(2) = 1.414, 1.414^1.414 = 1.6325, 1.414^1.6325=1.76, 1.414^1.76 is larger than 1.76, each step makes the result larger and larger. The only logical answer is that sqrt(2) raised to itself for infinity is itself infinity, not 2. – Paul Ostrowski Dec 09 '11 at 16:17
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    @PaulOstrowski, you're wrong. This converge to 2. Take a read in this wikipedia article. – GarouDan Dec 09 '11 at 19:13
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    @PaulOstrowski: if $x\lt2$, then $\sqrt{2}^x\lt\sqrt{2}^2=2$, so $\sqrt{2}^{\sqrt{2}^{\sqrt{2}^{,^{\cdot^{\cdot^{\cdot^{\sqrt{2}}}}}}}}\lt2$. Furthermore, if $x\lt2$, then $\sqrt{2}^x\gt x$, so the chain is increasing and bounded above. – robjohn Sep 06 '19 at 03:05
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Irrationality of the Riemann zeta function at integer values.

$\zeta(2)$ is irrational. This won't be an obvious fact to those without a mathematics background, but most mathematicians are familiar with a proof that $\zeta(2)=\frac{\pi^2}{6}$. (And there are similar statements for the zeta function of even integers).

$\zeta(3)$ is irrational. Known, but not until 1978. Here we have irrationality, but no closed expression in terms of well-understood constants. (Nor, to my knowledge, is there any reason to expect such an expression to exist).

$\zeta(5)$ is irrational. Open. We know that $\zeta(2k+1)$ is irrational infinitely often, and least one of $\zeta(5)$, $\zeta(7)$, $\zeta(9)$, and $\zeta(11)$ is irrational.

(See this post for links to more details. The Wikipedia article on Apéry's Theorem also lists some results.)

10

What positive integers can be written as the sum of two squares? Sum of three squares? Sum of four?

For two squares, it's all positive integers of the form $a^2b$, where $b$ isn't divisible by any prime of the form $4k+3$, and the proof is easy.

For four squares, it's all positive integers, and the proof is moderately difficult, but covered in any course on number theory.

For three squares, it's positive integers not of the form $4^a (8b+7)$ and, while not impossible, the proof is considerably more difficult than the previous two.

user7530
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8

Sometimes a problem which seems very hard turns out to be "easy" because someone was clever enough to look at it in just the correct way. Two examples of this:

a. Construct lots of non-homiltonian planar 3-valent 3-connected graphs (such graphs can be realized by convex 3-dimensional polyhedra) The Grinberg condition provides a nifty approach to finding such graphs easily: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinberg%27s_theorem

b. Klee's art gallery problem: find the number of vertex guards that are sometimes necessary and always sufficient to "see" all of the interior of a plane simple polygon with n vertices. V. Chvatal and Steve Fisk found simple ways to answer this question: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_gallery_theorem

4

Let $D(M)=$ the collection of Dedekind cuts in the structure $M=(X,<)$.

(a) $|D(\mathbb{Q})|=|\mathbb{R}|$ (this is relatively easy)

(b) For any dense linear order $M=(X,<)$, $2^{|M|} \geq |D(M)|$ (this one is a little more challenging)

(c) For any dense linear order $M=(X,<)$, $2^{|M|}=|D(M)|$ (this one is impossible, since it is independent of ZFC).

Kyle Gannon
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1) There is an infinite number of integer solutions to $a^2+b^2=c^2$ with $abc \neq 0$

2) There are no integer solutions to $a^n+b^n=c^n$ with $abc \neq 0$ and $n \geq 3$

3) If $a^x+b^y=c^z$ where $a,b,c,x,y,z$ are positive integers with $x,y,z >2$ then $a$, $b$ and $c$ have a common prime factor.

4

Have you considered the famous classification of all finite simple groups? See here for the history of this effort. In addition and intimately related, the conjecture of Burnside (1911): every finite group of odd order is solvable (or equivalently: every finite simple group has even order), which was settled by Walter Feit and John Thompson in 1963.

Nicky Hekster
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4

This famous pell equation $$\Large{ 61 x^{2} + 1 =y^{2}}$$ has an trivial solution $(0,\pm{1})$. But if you were to look out for positive integral solutions then the smallest positive integral solution is given by $(226153980,1766319049)$. More on this here at this link

C.S.
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  1. $\zeta(2) = \sum_n \frac{1}{n^2} = \frac{\pi^2}{6}$

  2. $\zeta(1+it) \neq 0$

  3. $\zeta(s)=0$ $\implies$ $\Re(s)= 1/2$, if $s$ is lies in the right half-plane.

vidyarthi
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Mustafa Said
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