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I'm trying to understand the Lie bracket operation $[X, Y]$ as the rate of change of $Y$ as seen by an observer moving along the flow of $X$.

Example 1

Suppose $X=\{1, x\}^T$ and $Y=\{1, 0\}^T$, then $[X, Y]=\{0, -1\}$ and the flow of $X$ is $\{t+x_0,\frac{1}{2}t^2+ t\ x_0+ y_0\}$.

But I'm failing to see how along any of the flows below, the rate of change of vector $\{1, 0\}$ is $\{0,-1\}$.

enter image description here

Example 2

Suppose $X=\{x, x\}^T$ and $Y=\{1, 0\}^T$, then $[X, Y]=\{-1, -1\}$ and the flow of $X$ is $\{e^t\ x_0,e^t\ x_0-x_0+y_0\}$.

Again from plot below I'm not able to see how the directional derivative makes sense. enter image description here

Edit

Adding except from the source. enter image description here

1 Answers1

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Too long for a comment.

$Y=\{1,0\}^\top$ which I prefer to write as $Y=\partial_y$ is a constant vector field. Its directional derivative w.r.t. any other vector field $X$ is zero. The Lie dervative ${\cal L}_XY$ of a vector field $Y$ w.r.t. $X$ is the difference of the directional derivatives: $$ {\cal L}_XY=[X,Y]=\partial_XY-\partial_YX\,. $$

  • Note that the commutator $[X,Y]$ is by definition the difference of two second order differential operators, while the directional derivatives are first order differential operators.

In your first case, \begin{align} X&=\partial_x+x\partial_y\,,&Y&=\partial_x\,,&XY&=\partial_x^2+x\partial_y\partial_x\,,&YX&=\partial_x^2+\partial_y+x\partial_x\partial_y \end{align} so that the commutator becomes \begin{align}\require{cancel} [X,Y]&=XY-YX=\cancel{\partial_x^2}+\bcancel{x\partial_y\partial_x}-\cancel{\partial_x^2}-\partial_y-\bcancel{x\partial_x\partial_y}=-\partial_y\,. \end{align} On the other hand, the directional derivatives are calculated by applying $\partial_x,\partial_y$ to the components of $X$ and $Y$ and taking the dot product with the components of $Y$, resp. $X\,:$ $$ \partial_XY^\nu=X^x\partial_xY^\nu+X^y\partial_yY^\nu\,. $$ This is the $\nu$-th component of $\partial_XY\,.$

In your first case $X^x=1,X^y=x,Y^x=1,Y^y=0$ so that \begin{align} \partial_XY&=0\,,&\partial_YX=\partial_y\,. \end{align}

Kurt G.
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  • $$\partial_XY=\partial_x\partial_x+x\partial_y\partial_x$$ $$\partial_YX=\partial_x\partial_x+x\partial_x\partial_y+\partial_y$$

    The double derivatives cancel in $\partial_XY-\partial_YX$, but how can they be set to $0$ to get $\partial_XY=0$ and $\partial_YX=\partial_y$.

    – Suba Thomas Nov 06 '23 at 02:59
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    You seem to have a misunderstanding about commutator and directional derivative. I tried to address this in an edit. – Kurt G. Nov 06 '23 at 04:06
  • Thanks for clearing that up. But I'm trying to understand how the Lie bracket $[X, Y]$ itself is a directional derivative. Does it mean that $-\partial_y$ is the rate of change of $Y$ as seen by an observer moving along the flow of $X$? (This statement is from p. 61 of this book https://www.academia.edu/84388355/Nonlinear_Control_and_Analytical_Mechanics_A_Computational_Approach.) – Suba Thomas Nov 06 '23 at 04:31
  • I have added the excerpt from the book. They use $v$ and $w$ instead of $X$ and $Y$. – Suba Thomas Nov 06 '23 at 19:06
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    Thanks. This shows that -with the flow definition- ${\cal L}_XY=[X,Y]$ holds as well. Conclusion: unlike what I wrote in a now deleted comment: The Lie derivative is in general not a directional derivative $\partial_XY,.$ It is the difference of two such directional derivatives. Finally, ${\cal L}_XY=[X,Y]$ it is the rate of change of $Y$ as seen by an observer that moves with the flow of $X,.$ – Kurt G. Nov 06 '23 at 20:20
  • This takes me back to the original question. I have the plot for the flow of $X$. I'm trying to visualize on the plot how the rate of change of $Y={1, 0}$ for an observer moving along that flow is ${0, -1}$. I'm imagining a vector $Y$ (basically constant and pointing to the right) at each point of the flow. If I am moving along the flow, how am I seeing the rate of change of $Y$ as ${0, -1}$? – Suba Thomas Nov 06 '23 at 20:44
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    The screenshot from the book shows a slightly more readable version of something that is often presented in ponderous ways like this. Some DGs seem to believe that the more intimidating a notation is the better. Trying to visualise this you have my full sympathy. I think that the point is that in the $t$-derivative we have to find ways to compare vectors that live in different tangent spaces $T_xM$ and $T_{\Psi(x,t)}M,.$ ... – Kurt G. Nov 07 '23 at 05:29
  • Therefore the ponderous formalism. This is a bit similar to parallel transport of which there are many good pedagogical treatments. Please try to google for visualisation of Lie derivative or something. Perhaps someone has written that pedagogical piece already. – Kurt G. Nov 07 '23 at 05:31
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    This looks pretty good, too. – Kurt G. Nov 07 '23 at 11:30
  • Thanks for all your help. – Suba Thomas Nov 07 '23 at 15:45