-4

While looking on forums for challenging high school math questions, I came across the following integral:

(excuse me if I forget to write dt or dx, the work should still be correct)

$$I=\int\frac{2x^{2}+1}{x^{3}+x\ln\left(x\right)} \,\Bbb dx.$$

First I used the substitution $\ln(x)=t$ leading to the following: $$x=e^t, \qquad \frac{\Bbb dx}{\Bbb dt}=e^t.$$

\begin{align} I&=\int \frac{2e^{2t}+1}{e^{3t}+t\cdot e^{t}}\,\Bbb dx\\ &=\int\frac{2e^{2t}+1}{e^{2t}+t}\,\Bbb dt \tag{Eq. 1}\\ &=\int\frac{f'(t)}{f(t)}\,\Bbb dt\\ &=\ln(e^{2t}+t)+c. \tag{Integral exists} \end{align}

This proves the existence of the integral. Continuing from (Eq. 1) and integrating by parts yields the following:

$$(\text{Eq. 1}) \implies I=\int\frac{2e^{2t}+1}{e^{2t}+t}\,\Bbb dt =\int uv'=uv-\int vdu.$$

$u=(e^{2t}+t)^{-1}$, $u'=-(e^{2t}+t)^{-2}\cdot(2e^{2t}+1)$.

$v'=2e^{2t}+1$, $v=e^{2t}+t$.

\begin{align} I&=(e^{2t}+t)\cdot(e^{2t}+t)^{-1}-\int -(e^{2t}+t)^{-2}\cdot(2e^{2t}+1)\cdot(e^{2t}+t)\\ &=\frac{(e^{2t}+t)}{(e^{2t}+t)}+\int(e^{2t}+t)^{-1}\cdot(2e^{2t}+1)\\ &=1+\int\frac{2e^{2t}+1}{e^{2t}+t}, \end{align} and $\int(2e^{2t}+1)/(e^{2t}+t)\,\Bbb dt$ is just equal to $I$, so:

\begin{align} I &= 1+I, \\ 0 &= 1. \end{align}

As for any argument relating to $I$ diverging to infinity, thus making the statement true, I could just make the integral definite in $(a,b)$ for any values of a and b that are both defined and result in a finite value for the integral

Similarly, if anyone thinks it’s because of the constant, assume:

$$I=f(t) +c,$$

then

$$f(t) +c =1+f(t) +c,\\0=1$$

And even if you could evaluate them separately for two different constants $C$ and $D$ such that $C=D+1$ and they cancel out to $0=1$, I could always just do the opposite and assign initial conditions to evaluate it such that it again leads to a contradiction. Or I could apply limits so that the constants cancel out anyway.

I don’t think either of these arguments are the real solution. I couldn’t find any restrictions on using integration by parts, or any mistake in my work. Still stuck on this.

Rócherz
  • 3,976
Adithya
  • 11
  • 10
    The $+C$ in each does not need to be the same $C$. – JMoravitz Sep 19 '23 at 02:06
  • 2
    At a glance you seem to be ignoring the difference between a definite integral and an indefinite integral. When you write $I = \int_{ }^{ }\frac{2e^{2t}+1}{e^{3t}+t\cdot e^{t}}dt$, you are most charitably describing that $I$ is a function (argument omitted) whose derivative is the expression given as an integrand. So it is an error to conclude that $I$ is a particular value like $0$ or $1$. – hardmath Sep 19 '23 at 02:09
  • 1
    "I could just make the integral definite" - great idea. Try it. – David Sep 19 '23 at 02:12
  • 1
    To emphasize or rephrase again... the indefinite integral of a function is a class of functions all of whom are the same except for the constant added. The class of functions if you were to solve the integral the one way happens to be the same class of functions if you were to solve it the other way, even if the representation varies slightly. There is no contradiction here. – JMoravitz Sep 19 '23 at 02:18
  • @JMoravitz wouldnt the C be the same if f(t) is the same? the function would also have the same initial condition, so the constants would evaluate to the same value – Adithya Sep 19 '23 at 02:51
  • @David can i not put limits and make the function definite? if not, could you explain – Adithya Sep 19 '23 at 02:52
  • @hardmath Im aware its a function, which i expressed as f(t)+C. if provided the same initial conditions, C would be the same on both sides, yes? Im not sure i completely understand why there isnt a contradiction. And what if i made the integral definite, between 2 finite values? Would I not then be a value? – Adithya Sep 19 '23 at 02:54
  • 1
    @David oh is it because making it definite causes the 1 to become (1-1) resulting in 0=0 and no contradiction? – Adithya Sep 19 '23 at 02:57
  • @Adithya Yes of course you can, did you try it as I suggested? – David Sep 19 '23 at 02:57
  • @hardmath even if it is a function, a function f(x) = f(x) + 1 is still a contradiction, yes? Maybe I dont understand indefinite vs definite integrals as i thought. am i missing something? – Adithya Sep 19 '23 at 02:58
  • 1
  • " ... if provided the same initial conditions, C would be the same on both sides, yes?" No. The final computed value on both sides would be the same, but that doesn't mean the constants are the same. For a super-simple trig based example, $\cos^2(x)+C_1$ and $-\sin^2(x)+C_2$ are both anti-derivatives of the same function, but you wouldn't get equal functions if you choose the same value for both $C_1$ and $C_2$. – JonathanZ Sep 19 '23 at 03:10
  • @JonathanZ yes but you could rewrite it as 1-sin^2x + C1 and then C1 + 1 = C2, and theyd still cancel out. Like if you had I = I + 1 written as cos^2x + C1 = -sin^2x + C2 + 1 then it just becomes 1 + C1 - C2 = 1 which is 0 = 1. which is why i specified I = f(x) + c on both sides cause it can be manipulated to that f(x) is the same, and w the same intial conditions C would then be the same, right? – Adithya Sep 19 '23 at 03:31
  • I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "cancel out" here, but in general you can only "cancel out" things that are equal, and, as you just showed, $C_1$ and $C_2$ are not equal. – JonathanZ Sep 19 '23 at 03:37
  • @JonathanZ i checked out the link. my point was, if initial conditions are given, then the “arbitrary” constant c becomes the same for I, as its defined. so then I = f(x) + C and C is always the same if f(x) is the same, and for any other differentiable function g(x) + D = f(x) + C = I, assuming initial conditions are given- meaning its no longer a family of functions, but one specific function, I – Adithya Sep 19 '23 at 03:38
  • @JonathanZ yes, they are not but 1 + C1 = C2 and they will cancel out, and the two functions are equal if their initial conditions are equal – Adithya Sep 19 '23 at 03:39
  • "... C is always the same if f(x) is the same," But your $f(x)$ is not the same on both sides of the equals sign. It is an anti-derivative, and anti-derivatives are only determined up to plus/minus a constant. – JonathanZ Sep 19 '23 at 03:43
  • Let's go back to my simple trig example. And let's impose the initial condition that it's 0 at 0 (i.e. integrate from 0 to $x$). You claim that this will show that $\cos^2(x)$ and $-\sin^2(x)$ are the same function. This is clearly incorrect, so all you have to do is apply your argument to this concrete example and see exactly where it goes wrong. – JonathanZ Sep 19 '23 at 03:49
  • @JonathanZ f(x) = cos^2x + C1, applying (0,0) -> C1 = -1, f(x) = cos^2x - 1 = -sin^2x, g(x) = -sin^2x + C2, applying (0,0) -> C2 = 0, g(x) = -sin^2x, so g(x) = f(x) when initial condition are applied. so if I = g(x) or f(x) and I = 1 + I, then f(x) = 1 + g(x) and it still yields 0=1. Because once intial conditions are applied, two functions which are the anti derivative of the same function (example, f(x) + C1 and g(x) + C2), once intial conditions are applied, the constants get adjusted so that f(x) + C1 = g(x) + C2 – Adithya Sep 19 '23 at 15:02
  • @JonathanZ Also, what you did was make the integral definite, which I'm aware will result in 0=0 or I=I. but in your example, cos^2x and -sin^2x, when applied limit (0,x), you get cos^2x - cos^0 = cos^2x - 1 = -sin^2x. as for -sin^x, when applied limits (0,x) you get -sin^x + 0 = -sin^x, so you can see that they evaluate to the same values. you can put limits (a,b) and see how they evaluate to the same thing. but for definite integrals I = 1+I becomes I = [1-1] + I and I=I so there's no contradiction, but for indefinite integrals it is . – Adithya Sep 19 '23 at 15:07
  • @David yeah i tried it and it results in I = I thus eliminating the contradiction for definite integrals. but assuming I is a function, an indefinite integral and not a value like a definite integral. Assume suitable initial conditions are provided so that the arbitrary constant C is no longer arbitrary. then I = f(x) + C so the contradiction still happens as C is always the same for suitable initial conditions. – Adithya Sep 19 '23 at 17:09
  • You do realize that $0=1$ is valid for indefinite integrals? Also, if you only have an arbitrary indefinite integral, i.e. $\int f(x) dx$, you can't talk about "initial conditions". Once you pick specific indefinite integral, i.e. a specific $F(x)$ such that $F'(x) = f(x)$, then you can talk about, say, $F(0)$. But you can't talk about the value of $\int x^2 dx$ at $0$ - it doesn't make sense. – JonathanZ Sep 19 '23 at 17:16
  • @JonathanZ why not? I've done, and seen problems like that all the time. Is that wrong? is F(X) = ∫f(x) and F(X) has an constant that cannot be found by just integrating f(x), you can apply an initial conditions like F(0) = 1 to find a solution. For example, imagine F(X) = 2x+1. F'(X) = 2 = f(x). Youre given that F(X) = ∫f(x) = ∫2 = 2x+c with an arbitrary constant c. this doesnt tell us what the function F(X) is equal to exactly, but given the conditions F(0)=1, you can prove c=1. so the indefinite integral, or function, ∫f(x) = F(X) = 2x+1 and it can only = 2x+1 , and c is always 1 – Adithya Sep 19 '23 at 17:32
  • @JonathanZ could you explain why 0=1 is valid for indefinite integrals? if i have defined I as a function with initial conditions (I=a when x=b), then the indefinite integral evaluates to a specific function with no arbitrary constants and evaluates to 0=1. in this case I = ln(2+)+ and c is the same in every case if initial conditions are applied (e.g e^2t + t = 1 when I = 1, therefore c=0 all the time) – Adithya Sep 19 '23 at 17:37
  • @JonathanZ what im saying is the integral I is not arbitrary, but rather a specific function. hence why theres an initial condition for its input and output to determine the constant – Adithya Sep 19 '23 at 17:38
  • 1
    Another example: $$\int \frac1x, dx = \int 1\frac1x, dx = x\frac1x - \int x\frac{-1}{x^2}, dx = 1 + \int \frac1x , dx.$$ Subtracting $\int \frac1x , dx$ suggests that $0=1.$ – md2perpe Sep 19 '23 at 20:13
  • @md2perpe -Yeah, that's a much easier version that displays the same issue. I'm not sure it would have helped the OP here, but it's great to have it as a comment. – JonathanZ Sep 19 '23 at 20:51
  • @md2perpe yeah I get it now. My issue came from attributing the initial conditions of the first integral to the integral on the other side. the integral on the right will still have an arbitrary constant. thanks! – Adithya Sep 20 '23 at 18:05

1 Answers1

2

You are misunderstanding the equation $\int udv= uv-\int vdu$.

This is an equality between indefinite integrals. As I said in the answer to the duplicate question I linked

In the world of computing anti-derivatives, "=" means "differ by a constant"...

And since this is causing so much confusion I am going to introduce some notation. Integration by parts is

$$\int udv =_{ii}uv-\int vdu$$ where the $=_{ii}$ means "equality as anti-derivatives/indefinite integrals".

If you go check the wikipedia page on integration by parts it says: "This is to be understood as an equality of functions with an unspecified constant added to each side. Taking the difference of each side between two values ... gives the definite integral version", which is saying same thing, although they don't bother to annotate the equals sign.

So now, we can clarify that "$0 = 1$" really should be written as "$0 =_{ii} 1$", and it means that when you consider them as functions they differ by a constant, which is true. If that's not clear, please feel free to add a comment about it.

Going back to your original computation, we see that what you figured out is (for your function $r(t)$)

$$\int r(t) dt =_{ii} 1 + \int r(t) dt \,\,\,\,\,\,\text{ (1)}$$ and then you are doing manipulations that you believe will turn the $=_{ii}$ into a $=$, but they don't, not validly. (Note that you still can subtract the integral from both sides, and that gives you "$0=_{ii}1$", which, as noted, is true.)

The things you can do to turn it into a "$=$" equation are:

  • take the difference between the values of both sides at $x=a$ and $x=b$, i.e. do definite integrals. As you say, there's no contradiction in this case,

or

  • introduce the arbitrary constants. So, suppose you have some $R(x)$ such that $R'(x) = r(x)$. Then you can turn equation (1) into $$ R(x) +C_1 = 1+R(x) + C_2$$ You could then, if you wanted to, impose some initial condition identically on both sides, and figure out the relationship between $C_1$ and $C_2$. But notice that the initial condition must be applied to the entirety of each side - after all, those are the functions that are equal.

In reading your arguments, I wonder if this way of thinking about it might help: it seems like you think the arbitrary constant lies in the $\int$ symbol, but really it is in the $=_{ii}$ symbol, and you need to make the arbitrary constant explicit not when you remove the $\int$ sign, but when you convert the $=_{ii}$ to an $=$.

JonathanZ
  • 10,615
  • 1
    Thanks, this helped, My point was that the arbitrary constsnt wasn’t arbitrary at all due to the initial conditions defining I, but in that case that definition cannot be attributed to the integral on the right hand side, meaning it isnt I = 1 + I its I = 1+ (integral) where (integral) is a function w the same antiderivative but a diff conatsnt as it isnt bound by the initial conditions. also your answer helped me better understand the nature of indefinite integrals and their constants, thanks – Adithya Sep 19 '23 at 20:03
  • Phew, glad we finally got somewhere! :-) I agree that thinking about exactly where we can apply initial conditions helped. Also, feel free to give this answer an up vote or a check mark. ;-) – JonathanZ Sep 19 '23 at 20:44