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I am trying to see whether $(7, 1+\sqrt{79})$ is a prime ideal in $\mathbb{Z}[\sqrt{79}]$. I tried doing this by looking at the factor ring $\mathbb{Z}[\sqrt{79}]/(7, 1+\sqrt{79})$. We have $\mathbb{Z}[\sqrt{79}]\cong \mathbb{Z}[X]/(X^2-79)$, so $$\mathbb{Z}[\sqrt{79}]/(7, 1+\sqrt{79}) \cong \frac{\mathbb{Z}[X]/(X^2-79)}{(\hat{7}, \hat{1}+X)}=\frac{\mathbb{Z}[X]/(X^2-79)}{(7, 1+X)/(X^2-79)}\cong \mathbb{Z}[X]/(7, 1+X)\cong \frac{\mathbb{Z}[X]/(7)}{(7, 1+X)/(7)}\cong\frac{\mathbb{Z}_7[X]}{(\hat{1}+X)}.$$ Is this correct? Since $\hat{1}+X$ is irreducible in $\mathbb{Z}_7[X]$, it would follow that my ideal $(7, 1+\sqrt{79})$ is prime in $\mathbb{Z}[\sqrt{79}]$.

  • @BillDubuque thank you, I was unsure when I wrote $(\hat{7}, \hat{1}+X)=(7, 1+X)/(X^2-79)$, but now I see that it is all right. I was unsure because my professor makes the abuse you talk about in the link and I was kind of confused. – MathIsCool Jan 18 '22 at 16:48
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    See the links in the comment on my answer for further details on points that are often confusing when first learning this topic. – Bill Dubuque Jan 18 '22 at 16:51
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    This topic certainly can be confusing, @BillDubuque . One needs experience, experience, experience with it. – Lubin Jan 18 '22 at 19:13
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    I truly do think that the original problem involved instead $(2,1+\sqrt{79},)$. Now that’s an interesting question. – Lubin Jan 19 '22 at 05:26
  • Oops, I meant to check your calculation after you replied, but forgot to do so. Kudos @Lubin for doing so. Your oversight is attempting to apply the third isomorphism theorem to an ideal $(7,1+x)$ that does not contain $(x^2-79)$. See my answer for the correct way to do so. – Bill Dubuque Jan 19 '22 at 09:36
  • I appended some motivation to my answer. Let me know if anything remains unclear. – Bill Dubuque Jan 19 '22 at 16:55

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Are you sure you have the problem right? Call $I=(7,\sqrt{79}+1)$. Since it’s an ideal, it also contains $(\sqrt{79}+1)(\sqrt{79}-1)=78$. Since $78$ and $7$ are relatively prime, $1\in I$, so you’re dealing with the unit ideal.

Lubin
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  • yes, that was the correct statement. I didn't think about doing it like this, even though my problem actually was deciding whether that ideal is prime or not and I felt that maybe I don't really have to go as far as finding some more complicated isomorphism. Thank you very much, I will keep in mind that sometimes maybe there is some quick clever observation in such questions. – MathIsCool Jan 19 '22 at 19:38
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There is a an error. In particular, we do not have $(\hat{7}, \hat{1}+X)=(7, 1+X)/(X^2-79)$. The issue is that $(X^2 -79)$ is not contained in $(7, 1+ X)$, so the notation $(7, 1+X)/(X^2-79)$ doesn't really make sense.

What is true is that $(\hat{7}, \hat{1}+X)=(7, 1+X, X^2 -79)/(X^2-79)$. I will leave it to you to verify this. We end up with $$\mathbb{Z}[\sqrt{79}]/(7, 1+\sqrt{79}) \cong \mathbb{Z}[X]/(7, 1+X, X^2 -79).$$ Finally, we have $$ (7, 1+X, X^2-79) = (7, 1+X, (-1)^2 - 79) = (7, 1+X, -78) =(1).$$ The first equality is due to $1+X$ being in the ideal. (In general, when dealing with generators of an ideal, we may "pretend the generator is zero"; this gives us $X = -1$ in this case.) The final equality comes from the fact that $7$ and $78$ are relatively prime integers. (In particular, this means we can write $1 = 7x + 78y$ for some integers $x$ and $y$, so that $1$ must be in the ideal, too.) We conclude that the original ideal $(7, 1+\sqrt{79})$ of $\mathbb{Z}[\sqrt{79}]$ was also the unit ideal.

As Lubin says, these sorts of things require a bit of experience to see quickly. I was a bit "fast and loose" with my reasoning above. I recommend taking some time to let it digest (i.e. think through why each step was legal).

Brian Shin
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    Re: "pretend the generator is zero" is explained more rigorously in this answer and its links. – Bill Dubuque Jan 19 '22 at 18:50
  • @Brian Shin thank you for your answer too. I didn't realize that $(X^2-79)$ is not contained in $(7, 1+X)$, it seemed like something "definitely not worth checking because it is true". – MathIsCool Jan 19 '22 at 19:36
  • It may not be clear to many readers precisely what you mean in your first paragraph. In particular, what denotations are you assigning to $(\hat 7, \hat 1+X),$ and $,(7,1+X)/(X^2-79)$? Do you also think $(\Bbb Z/10)/(4/10)$ "doesn't really make sense"? Perhaps using more precise notation will help clarify your intent for readers. – Bill Dubuque Jan 22 '22 at 09:37
  • @Bill Dubuque sure that's definitely fair. I guess my point is that notation can be confusing and inconsistent, but there's often a way to make sense of what is written. For example, I do find the notation $(\mathbb{Z}/10)/(4/10)$ confusing and a bit nonsensical, and it's probably something I would try to avoid writing, but I think I know what you mean by it. – Brian Shin Jan 24 '22 at 16:15
  • @Brian Could you please explain why you think such notation is "confusing and ... nonsensical .. inconsistent". My prior comment was hoping to nudge such an explanation since I think your critique may prove confusing to many students – Bill Dubuque Jan 24 '22 at 16:17
  • Perhaps "nonsensical" is the wrong word. I am speaking personally. I only write $I/J$ when $J$ is a submodule of $I$. Sure, if $J\not \subseteq I$ and I see $I/J$, then I know we probably mean $(I+J)/J$, but this takes me a second. Unfortunately, this delay can cause some confusion if I'm reading quickly: for example, the notation $(\mathbb{Z}/10)/(4/10)$ suggests that it is isomorphic to $\mathbb{Z}/4$, which is false. It doesn't take much to figure out why that suggestion is wrong, but it does take something. – Brian Shin Jan 24 '22 at 16:28
  • So you restrict slash notation to module vs. ring quotients? So you cannot you slash notation for the quotient of the ring $,R = \Bbb Z/10,$ by $4R$? How do you denote that ring quotient? Keep in mind that some textbooks introduce quotient rings before quotient modules. – Bill Dubuque Jan 24 '22 at 17:39
  • As a general rule of thumb, in the context of algebra, I restrict slash notation to be between a mathematical thing and a sub-thing. If you would like to discuss this more, perhaps we should continue somewhere else. – Brian Shin Jan 24 '22 at 19:40
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You have the right idea to apply the third isomorphism theorem, but you applied it incorrectly. Below I show how to correctly apply it, add some motivation to help avoid such mistakes.

Write $\,I=(x^2-79)\,$ and $J=(7,x+1)\,$ for those ideals in $\,\Bbb Z[x].\,$ By the correspondence and third isomorphism theorems, the ideal $J$ in $\Bbb Z[x]$ corresponds to $J+I$ in $\Bbb Z[x]/I,\,$ and $\,\Bbb Z[x]/(J\!+\!I)\cong (\Bbb Z[x]/I)\:\!/\:\!(J\!+\!I)/I.\,$ But here $J+I = (1)$ as below

$$\begin{align} J+I&=(7,\,x+1, \,x^2-79)\\[.2em] &= (7,\,x+1,\,x^2-79\bmod x+1)\\[.2em] &= (7,\,x+1,\,-78)\ \ \rm by\ \color{#0a0}{PRT}\\[.2em] &= (1),\ \ {\rm by}\ \ (7,\,78)=1\\[.2em] \Rightarrow\ \ \Bbb Z[x]/(J+I) & = \{0\} \end{align}\qquad$$

where we used the fact that $f(a) = f(x)\bmod x\!-\!a\,$ by $\rm\color{#0a0}{PRT} =$ Polynomial Remainder Theorem, while performing ideal modular reduction (an ideal analog of the reduction step in the Euclidean algorith for the gcd).

Otoh if $\,J=(p,x+1)\,$ where $\,p=2,3\,$ or $13$ is a prime factor of $78,\,$ then the same calculation yields $\,J+I = (p,x+1,78) = (p,x+1)\,$ by $\,p\mid 78,\,$ hence

$$\Bbb Z[x]/(J\!+\!I) = \Bbb Z[x]/(x\!+\!1,p) \,\cong\, (\Bbb Z[x]/p)/(x\!+\!1,p)/p\,\cong\, \Bbb Z_p[x]/(x\!+\!1)\,\cong\, \Bbb Z_p\qquad$$ as follows by here and its links.

Note that the remainder $\,x^2-79\bmod x+1$ is just the norm $\, n = \alpha\bar\alpha\,$ of $\,\alpha = 1+\sqrt{79},$ and $\,\alpha\in I\Rightarrow n =\alpha\bar\alpha \in I,\,$ so $\,(a,\alpha) = (a,n,\alpha) = ((a,n),\alpha),\,$ i.e. any integer generator can be replaced by its gcd with the norm of any element in $I$. Lubin's answer is a special case of this.

To better understand the correspondence and isomorphism theorems it is illuminating to study them in the special case of a PID, recalling that for principal ideals contains = divides, i.e. $(j)\supseteq (i)\iff j\mid i.\,$ Here the correspondence theorem implies that the ideal $(j)$ in $R$ maps to $(j)+(i) = (\gcd(j,i))$ in $R/i,\,$ and there is an order-preserving bijection between the ideals of $R/i$ and the ideals $(j)$ of $R$ that contain $(i),\,$ i.e. the divisors $j$ of $i$. This means that the ideal lattice of $R$ collapses to a lattice in $R/i$ that is isomorphic to the lattice of divisors of $i$ in $R,\,$ via the map $(j)\to (\gcd(j,i)).\,$ If $\,j\mid i\,$ then $(R/i)(j/i)\cong R/j,\,$ e.g. $\,2\mid 10\Rightarrow (\Bbb Z/10)/(\Bbb 2/10)\cong \Bbb Z/2,\,$ which implies that any arithmetic done $\!\bmod 10\,$ remains valid when specialized $\!\bmod 2,\,$ so e.g. we can compute integer parity from arithmetic on its $\rm\color{#c00}{unit\ digits}$, e.g. $$\begin{align} \bmod 2\!:\ \ 17(19)\, &\equiv\, 1\color{#c00}7(1\color{#c00}9)\bmod 10\\ &\equiv\, \ \ \color{#c00}7(\color{#c00}9)\ \ \bmod 10\\ &\equiv\,\ \ \ \ 63\ \ \ \bmod 10\\ &\equiv\,\ \ \ \ \ \ 3\,\equiv\, 1\\ \end{align}\qquad\qquad\qquad\ \ $$

Less trivially: $\, 41\mid 10^{\large 5}\!-1\,$ thus $\bmod 41\!:\ n\equiv (n \bmod 10^5\!-\!1),\,$ e.g.

$$\begin{align} \bmod 41\!:\,\ \color{#f6f}{9}0000\color{#e00}200030\, &\equiv\, \color{#f6f}{9}(\color{#0a0}{10^{\large 5}})^{\large 2}\! + \color{#e00}2(\color{#0a0}{10^{\large 5}}) + 30\,\bmod\, \color{#0a0}{10^5-1}\\[.0em] &\equiv\, \color{#f6f}{9}(\color{#0a0}1)^{\large 2}\ \ \ +\color{#e00}2 (\color{#0a0}1)\ \ \,+\,\ 30,\ \ \ {\rm by}\ \ \color{#0a0}{10^5\equiv 1}\\[.0em] & \equiv\,\ \ 0\end{align}\ \ $$

which can be viewed as a radix $10^5$ analog of casting out nines in radix $10$ to compute $n\bmod 3$. Such simple modular arithmetic special cases help to motivate the less trivial instances with arbitrary (non-principal) ideals, e.g. as in OP.

Above $\,j\mid i\Rightarrow R/j\cong (R/i)(j/i)\,$ is the universal property of the quotient ring $R/i$, i.e. it is the most general image of $R$ where $\,i=0,\,$ i.e. every image $R/j$ of $R$ with $i=0\:\!$ is an image of $R/i$.

The above PID special case of said theorems is discussed in more "element-ary" language in this post on the method of simpler multiples. You may find these elementary examples useful for providing motivation for the more abstract theorems for general ideals. Such motivation is often glaringly absent from many algebra textbooks. As always, when attempting to understand abstract results one often gains valuable intuition by examining more concrete specializations.

Bill Dubuque
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  • thank you very much for your detailed explanation. Now I understand what I was doing wrong and what my professor was actually doing. – MathIsCool Jan 19 '22 at 19:35
  • To the downvoter: If something is not clear then please feel welcome to ask questions and I will be happy to elaborate. – Bill Dubuque Jan 20 '22 at 17:58
  • I wonder what is wrong with people downvoting such well written answers... – MathIsCool Jan 20 '22 at 18:30
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    @MathIsCool Unfortunately some users downvote answers due to disagreements about site politics. Alas, they often attack the answers one works hardest on. But I am here only to share the joy of math, so I could not care less about the puerile SE rep game. – Bill Dubuque Jan 20 '22 at 18:43