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Is there any proof to $|P(A)|=|P(B)| \Longrightarrow |A|=|B|$ that doesn't rely on Zorn's lemma (which means, without using the fact that $|A|\neq|B| \Longrightarrow |A|<|B|$ or $|A|>|B|$ ) ?

Thank you!

Adi Dani
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2 Answers2

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Even with Zorn's Lemma, one cannot (under the usual assumption that ZF is consistent) prove that if two power sets have the same cardinality, then the sets have the same cardinality.

André Nicolas
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    Are you sure? What is the most simple (not in length or content, but in the choice of tools) of this question? I mean, it should be true.. – ORBOT Inc. Jun 14 '13 at 16:47
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    @ORBOTInc. It is consistent with ZFC that $P(\aleph_0) = P(\aleph_1) = \aleph_2$, for instance. – Steven Stadnicki Jun 14 '13 at 16:54
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    Under GCH (Generalized Continuum Hypothesis) it is true. I do not know a provably weaker condition that yields what you want, though there probably is one. As to tools, a modification of Cohen's original forcing argument is enough. Not easy! – André Nicolas Jun 14 '13 at 16:57
  • I wouldn't dare asking an easy one here ;) I'm not sure what Alpeh1 or Aleph2 is... not familiar with those notations :( – ORBOT Inc. Jun 14 '13 at 17:01
  • No, $B$ natural numbers, $A$ even natural numbers. Or are you talking about finite sets only? – André Nicolas Jun 14 '13 at 17:08
  • @ORBOTInc. No, because that's also not true - take $A=\omega$ and $B=\omega^2$. Then $A\subset B$ and $|A|=|B|$ so $|P(A)|=|P(B)|$, but for instance the set ${\omega}\in P(B), \not\in P(A)$. – Steven Stadnicki Jun 14 '13 at 17:10
  • Sorry I messed my argument trying to figure out where to write in math like that :) I meant |A|=|B| (same as the original, just with A in B) – ORBOT Inc. Jun 14 '13 at 17:16
  • (Deleted the comment) The question is: is the argument above (the original one) can be proved while assuming A is in B? – ORBOT Inc. Jun 14 '13 at 17:17
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    The assumption $A\subseteq B$ makes no difference. – André Nicolas Jun 14 '13 at 17:20
  • Hoped it will by making A<=B legit.. :\ Under which assumption we may prove this, if at all? – ORBOT Inc. Jun 14 '13 at 17:24
  • As I mentioned in an earlier comment, the Generalized Continuum Hypothesis (GCH) will do it, or anything that implies GCH, like $V=L$. – André Nicolas Jun 14 '13 at 17:26
  • Familiar with GCH, not with V=L. How would you construct a formal proof using GCH alone? (And is it actually that hard? Seemed at first glance pretty trivial... guess I should work on my sight ;) ) – ORBOT Inc. Jun 14 '13 at 17:36
  • Yes, that there is nothing strictly between $\kappa$ and $2^\kappa$ yields the result immediately. AC becomes irrelevant because of Sierpinski's result that GCH implies AC. – André Nicolas Jun 14 '13 at 17:58
  • Moving on: Is GCH really the "weakest" condition to prove this? – ORBOT Inc. Jun 14 '13 at 18:03
  • I do not know. A first guess would be no. – André Nicolas Jun 14 '13 at 18:12
  • Any idea for other things to try? – ORBOT Inc. Jun 14 '13 at 18:21
  • @ORBOTInc. What do you mean by 'other things to try'? What are you trying to establish with your proposition? If you're not familiar with the Aleph notation for cardinals, then I would strongly suggest doing some deeper reading into set theory; you've got a lot of really interesting mathematics ahead of you to learn! – Steven Stadnicki Jun 14 '13 at 18:32
  • I actually never saw the notation Aleph_n (but Aleph_0, Aleph, 2^Aleph, etc.) - The truth is, Earlier today I was sitting with my professor at the discrete math course and he discussed with my about putting the question in our upcoming test... Quickly we both understood that its a bit out of the material ;) – ORBOT Inc. Jun 14 '13 at 19:56
  • There is the sequence of powers, for which one sometimes uses $\beth_{\kappa}$ (Hebrew letter "beth"). Then there is the sequence of infinite cardinals, for which $\aleph_{\kappa}$ is used. – André Nicolas Jun 14 '13 at 20:00
  • Ironically (given the fact I wasn't familiar with the generalized Aleph/Beth notations) I'm Israeli, so I am familiar with the letters :P – ORBOT Inc. Jun 14 '13 at 20:03
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One can not prove that $|\mathcal P(A)|=|\mathcal P(B)|$ implies $|A|=|B|$, even assuming Zorn's lemma (or equivalently, the axiom of choice).

It is consistent with choice (i.e., Zorn's lemma) that $2^{\aleph_0}=\aleph_{\omega+1}$ and, for every ordinal $\alpha$ that is $0$ or limit and, for every natural number $n$, we have $2^{\aleph_{\alpha+n+1}}=\aleph_{\alpha+\omega+1}$. This gives us that for any infinite $\kappa$ there are infinitely many different sizes $\lambda$ such that $2^{\kappa^+}=2^\lambda$. For example, this gives us that $\mathcal P(\aleph_0),\mathcal P(\aleph_1),\dots,\mathcal P(\aleph_\omega)$ all have the same size $\aleph_{\omega+1}$, while $\mathcal P(\aleph_{\omega+1}),\mathcal P(\aleph_{\omega+2}),\dots,\mathcal P(\aleph_{\omega+\omega})$ all have the same size $\aleph_{\omega+\omega+1}$, etc.

Similarly, one can also arrange that for any infinite $\kappa$ there is a different $\lambda$ with $2^\kappa=2^\lambda$.

On the other hand, for any positive integer $n$, it is consistent with choice that for any infinite cardinal $\kappa$, we have $2^\kappa=\kappa^{+n}$ (the $n$-th successor of $\kappa$). In this case, we have $|\mathcal P(A)|=|\mathcal P(B)|$ implies $|A|=|B|$. The case $n=1$ is the $\mathsf{GCH}$.

(Small technical note: For $n>1$, the result in the paragraph above requires large cardinals. We can avoid this by requiring, for example, that if $\kappa$ is a limit cardinal then $2^\kappa=\kappa^+$, while if it is a successor cardinal, then $2^\kappa=\kappa^{++}$. This can be achieved by a standard Easton forcing over a model of $\mathsf{GCH}$, and no large cardinals are required.)

Perhaps you are interested in whether there is a condition that does not imply choice but implies your statement or, more directly, whether your statement already implies choice. This is open. It was asked on MO, here. The statement (that Asaf Karagila calls $\mathsf{ICF}$, injective continuum function) implies $\mathsf{dBS}$, the dual Bernstein-Schroder theorem, in which I've been interested myself. This direct consequence of choice states that for any two sets $A$ and $B$, if there is a surjection from $A$ onto $B$ and a surjection from $B$ onto $A$, then $A$ and $B$ have the same size. It is also open whether $\mathsf{dBS}$ implies choice, see here.

The two links above give about all the results I'm aware of relating $\mathsf{ICF}$ and choice. As Asaf points out in the comments, $\mathsf{ICF}$ has also been called $\mathsf{WPH}$, the weak power hypothesis, and was also considered by Tarski. The reference

Azriel Lévy. The Fraenkel-Mostowski method for independence proofs in set theory, in The Theory of Models, J. Addison, L. Henkin, and A. Tarski, eds., North Holland, Amsterdam, 1965, pp. 135-157,

indicates that Tarski had already observed that $\mathsf{ICF}$ implies $\mathsf{dBS}$. Lévy's paper also asks whether $\mathsf{dSB}$ implies choice.

(Actually, it appears your question had already been asked on this site. See here and here.)

  • Very intresting. So, is there any way to construct a proof using dBS and choice, without using GCH? – ORBOT Inc. Jun 14 '13 at 18:35
  • No, choice implies the other principle, but does not suffice for the injective continuum function principle. – Andrés E. Caicedo Jun 14 '13 at 18:44
  • Actually, in the Banaschweski-Moore paper they apparently quote Tarski as someone asking the question about $\sf ICF$, although they (or maybe he?) called it "Weak Power Hypothesis". Also in a paper by the Rubins about some implications regarding comparability of power sets they also formulate this question (and several others!), most (if not all) are still open to my knowledge. – Asaf Karagila Jun 14 '13 at 19:07
  • @AsafKaragila Yes, of course! We even discussed this a while ago, didn't we? I'll look on my files for the appropriate reference and update. – Andrés E. Caicedo Jun 14 '13 at 19:30
  • The second reference is given here. – Asaf Karagila Jun 14 '13 at 19:39