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In Finite Mathematics by Lial et al. (10th ed.), problem 8.3.34 says:

On National Public Radio, the Weekend Edition program posed the following probability problem: Given a certain number of balls, of which some are blue, pick 5 at random. The probability that all 5 are blue is 1/2. Determine the original number of balls and decide how many were blue.

If there are $n$ balls, of which $m$ are blue, then the probability that 5 randomly chosen balls are all blue is $\binom{m}{5} / \binom{n}{5}$. We want this to be $1/2$, so $\binom{n}{5} = 2\binom{m}{5}$; equivalently, $n(n-1)(n-2)(n-3)(n-4) = 2 m(m-1)(m-2)(m-3)(m-4)$. I'll denote these quantities as $[n]_5$ and $2 [m]_5$ (this is a notation for the so-called "falling factorial.")

A little fooling around will show that $[m+1]_5 = \frac{m+1}{m-4}[m]_5$. Solving $\frac{m+1}{m-4} = 2$ shows that the only solution with $n = m + 1$ has $m = 9$, $n = 10$.

Is this the only solution?

You can check that $n = m + 2$ doesn't yield any integer solutions, by using the quadratic formula to solve $(m + 2)(m +1) = 2(m - 3)(m - 4)$. I have ruled out $n = m + 3$ or $n = m + 4$ with similar checks. For $n \geq m + 5$, solutions would satisfy a quintic equation, which of course has no general formula to find solutions.

Note that, as $n$ gets bigger, the ratio of successive values of $\binom{n}{5}$ gets smaller; $\binom{n+1}{5} = \frac{n+1}{n-4}\binom{n}{5}$ and $\frac{n+1}{n-4}$ is less than 2—in fact, it approaches 1. So it seems possible that, for some $k$, $\binom{n+k}{5}$ could be $2 \binom{n}{5}$.

This is now a question at MathOverflow.

Nick Matteo
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    We know that the exact power of two that divides the binomial coefficient ${n\choose 5}$ is the number of carries you need to do when you calculate $5+(n-5)$ in binary (with the grade school method). We can thus immediately rule out cases like $n\equiv 5\pmod8$ and $n\equiv 7\pmod 8$ simply because ${n\choose 5}$ is then an odd integer. Not sure how much this helps (other than cuts down search space), I'm afraid :-( – Jyrki Lahtonen Mar 28 '13 at 05:35
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    Note that you need approximately $n = 2^{1/5} m.$ So, with a computer package that allows for large integers, you can test this very rapidly. It is actually quicker to fix $k = n - m$ which is what you began in the final paragraph. Then solve for real number $\mu$ such that $$ k = (2^{1/5} - 1) \mu, $$ then let $m = 2 + \lfloor \mu \rfloor$ and $n = m + k.$ If the ratio is above 2 (it should be) increase both $m,n$ by 1 until the ratio is below 2. Then go on to the next difference $k.$ – Will Jagy Mar 28 '13 at 21:10
  • Sorry, should have been $m = -2 + \lfloor \mu \rfloor,$ which is just a precaution anyway, to make sure you begin with ratio on one side of 2 and then reach the other side, thereby not missing any possible equality. – Will Jagy Mar 28 '13 at 21:19
  • I used Excel to test up to $n=100{,}000$, where $n$ is the smaller integer. The closest hit to a ratio of $2$ (on the underside) was at $n=35{,}073$ with the other number larger by $k=5215$ and the ratio being $1.9999999999578\ldots$. Excel was finding the closest solution for integer $n$ recursively, checking values of $k$ close to the value of $k$ for $n-1$. – 2'5 9'2 Mar 29 '13 at 20:44
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    Considering possible values of $m$ modulo primes from 7 to 31, it's possible to quick-reject all but 8223271875 values $\pmod {247357937827}$ (i.e. to quick-reject about 29 in 30 values). It might be possible to prove that for prime $p$ at least $f(p)$ values of $m \pmod p$ have no possible value of $n \pmod p$ with a function $f$ which grows fast enough to make a heuristic argument for the number of solutions being vanishingly small. – Peter Taylor Mar 31 '13 at 22:19
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    A computer search says there are no other solutions for $n$ up to (as of now) 8040000000. – ShreevatsaR Apr 01 '13 at 09:36
  • If $p\geq 5$ is a prime, and if we have $m$ and $n$ a little larger than the one known solution, then (nontrivial) $p^k$ cannot be one of the consecutive integers $n,\ldots,n-4$. This is because in $m,\ldots,m-4$, all of the $p$-divisibility must be concentrated in one of those five integers, making $p^k$ equal one of them since $m<n$, and then $m$ and $n$ are too close (as with the known solution and $7^1$.) – 2'5 9'2 Apr 02 '13 at 03:45
  • Similarly a power of $3$ cannot be one of $n,\ldots,n-4$ for solutions larger than the known one. Suppose $3^k$ is one of them. Then either $3^k$ or $3^{k+1}$ is the total power of $3$ dividing $n\cdot\cdots\cdot(n-4)$. Because $m<n$, the only way to resolve this is if $3^{k-1}$ is a divisor of one of $m,\ldots,m-4$. Then $n\approx3m$, which is in conflict with $n\approx\sqrt[5]{2}m$. And finally a more case-wise but similar analysis applies to powers of 2. – 2'5 9'2 Apr 02 '13 at 03:49
  • All this implies that at least 6 primes (if $n$ is even) or 7 primes (if $n$ is odd) are in the factorization of $n\cdot\cdots\cdot(n−4)$ and precisely these primes to the same degrees are in the factorization of $m\cdot\cdots\cdot(m−4)$ with the exception of the power of 2, off by one. For this to coincide with $n\approx\sqrt[5]{2}m\ldots$ seems like a rare thing indeed! – 2'5 9'2 Apr 02 '13 at 04:01
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    It is necessary that we have $m>\frac {5n}{6}$ in order for the solution to exist. –  Apr 03 '13 at 17:25
  • Unfortunately Eisenstein's criterion is of no use. – Douglas B. Staple Apr 05 '13 at 02:50
  • I have tried to solve it, but the problem (for now) does not want to be solved by me, it could also be the case that for every $k\in\mathbb N$ there exists pair $(n_k,m_k)$ different from $(10,9)$ such that $|{n_k \choose 5}-2{m_k \choose 5}|< \frac {1}{k}$, and maybe because of that it is hard to solve it. –  Apr 07 '13 at 07:09
  • I proved that there is no more than two solutions, but that still isn´t the proof that there can be only one. –  Apr 07 '13 at 12:42
  • @Thus such a proof would be a major advance. Please post it as an answer. – Nick Matteo Apr 07 '13 at 14:25
  • @Kundor I am thinking of whether should I post it or not for almost 3 hours (or more) and I choose not to simply because it does not prove your original question but only gives an upper bound for the number of solutions so it would not be a complete answer, many people have upvoted this question and favourited it too so maybe it is better that we wait to someone with complete solution that totally and definitely solves your problem of the existence of one and only one solution. –  Apr 07 '13 at 15:12
  • Now I am not sure if that proof about maximum of two solutions is really a proof, the more I look at it the more it looks like a failure, so sure thing I will not publish incomplete results, I must verify it to a single detail. –  Apr 07 '13 at 15:34
  • @Kundor I found the flaw, so it is not a proof, good thing that I didn´t wan´t to publish it, the flaw is so obvious that I obviously had some unconscious tendency to not to see it, sorry! –  Apr 07 '13 at 15:52
  • Also, aside from Martin´s reference in the answer below, i found this which suggests that this could be an open problem. –  Apr 07 '13 at 17:30
  • @Thus: Is the problem mentioned there? – Martin Brandenburg Apr 08 '13 at 13:04
  • @Martin Brandenburg No. I hope that you can see the content of the link? There are solutions of combinatorial diophantine equations which are of this type that we are trying to solve here, but this one is not there. –  Apr 08 '13 at 13:09
  • As this has not been answered here, would you mind asking this question at MathOverflow? You can mention a link to the question here, say that it's not been answered, and see if some expert there knows some method that applies to this particular Diophantine equation... if you ask a question there, do paste the link here also. (If you're hesitant to ask, I'm willing to ask there.) – ShreevatsaR Apr 18 '13 at 17:06
  • @ShreevatsaR OK, I asked: http://mathoverflow.net/questions/128036/solutions-to-binomn5-2-binomm5 – Nick Matteo Apr 19 '13 at 02:25

3 Answers3

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Many Diophantine equations are solved using modern algebraic geometry. For an informal survey how this works, see

M. Stoll, How to solve a Diophantine equation, arXiv.

The most prominent example is Fermat's equation. But there are also interesting binomial equations. It has been shown very recently that $\binom{x}{5}=\binom{y}{2}$ has exactly $20$ integer solutions:

Y. Bugeaud, M. Mignotte, S. Siksek, M. Stoll, Sz. Tengely, Integral Points on Hyperelliptic Curves, arXiv

I don't know if this can be proven by elementary means. And I don't know the situation for $\binom{x}{5}=2 \binom{y}{5}$. I just want to warn you that it might be a waste of time to look for elementary solutions, and that instead more sophisticated methods are necessary. On the other hand, this equation arises as a problem from a book, so I am not sure ...

azimut
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I am putting some results that may or may not be part of an answer here, as a community wiki post, rather that cluttering the question with them. Perhaps they will help lead someone to a complete answer. If you have similar potentially useful information or partial answers, please feel free to add it here.


Let's see what can be gleaned by looking at $\binom{n}{r} = 2 \binom{n-k}{r}$ for other values of $r$. There is an interesting duality: $\binom{n}{r} = 2 \binom{n-k}{r} \iff \binom{n}{k} = 2 \binom{n-r}{k}$. So we can find solutions to the original problem by finding solutions to $\binom{n}{k} = 2\binom{n-5}{k}$. For any $r$, there is a "standard" solution, $\binom{2r}{r} = 2\binom{2r-1}{r}$, and several "trivial" solutions, $\binom{i}{r} = 2\binom{j}{r}$ whenever $0 \leq i,j \leq r - 1$.

For $r = 1$, there are infinitely many solutions; for any $k$, we have $\binom{2k}{1} = 2 \binom{k}{1}$. Under the duality, these correspond to the "standard" solutions $\binom{2k}{k} = 2 \binom{2k - 1}{k}$.

For $r = 2$, there are also infinitely many solutions. It's fun to see why. A solution satisfies the equation $n(n-1) = 2 (n-k)(n-k-1)$ or $$\begin{equation}\tag{1}\label{eq:qud}n^2 - (4k+1)n + (2k^2 + 2k) = 0.\end{equation}$$ Thus $n = \frac{4k + 1 \pm \sqrt{8k^2 + 1}}{2}$. Since $8k^2 + 1$ is odd, this either has two integer solutions if $8k^2 + 1$ is a perfect square, or none at all. Thus, whenever there is one solution $n$ for a given difference $k$, there must be a second. The second key ingredient is that since we are multiplying evenly many terms, we can change the signs of all the terms without changing the result.

So, start with the standard solution: $$ 4 \cdot 3 = 2 (3 \cdot 2). $$ Then it's also true that $$ 4 \cdot 3 = 2 (-2 \cdot -3), $$ in other words, $[4]_2 = 2[-2]_2 = 2[4-6]_2$, a solution with $k = 6$. So there must be another. When $k = 6$, equation $\eqref{eq:qud}$ is $n^2 - 25n + 84 = 0$, and we know we can factor out $(n - 4)$, which leaves $(n - 21)$. And indeed, $\binom{21}{2} = 2 \binom{15}{2}$. The duality gives $\binom{21}{6} = 2 \binom{19}{6}$. Repeating the process, we get $[21]_2 = 2 [-14]_2$ with a difference $k = 35$; factoring $(n - 21)$ from equation $\eqref{eq:qud}$ leaves $(n - 120)$, and indeed $\binom{120}{2} = 2 \binom{85}{2}$. Dually, $\binom{120}{35} = 2 \binom{118}{35}$. We can keep going up this "staircase" forever; if $k$ gives a solution, then so does $3k + \sqrt{8k^2 + 1}$. This is OEIS A001109.

Of course, this doesn't help for our case because $5$ doesn't appear. But it does show that solutions exist, besides the standard and trivial ones, for $r > 2$.

Now consider $r = 3$. We need to solve $[n]_3 = 2[n-k]_3$ or $$\begin{equation}\tag{2}\label{eq:cub}n^3 - (6k + 3)n^2 + (6k^2 + 12k + 2)n - (2k^3 + 6k^2 + 4k) = 0.\end{equation}$$ With $k = 0$ this factors as expected as $n(n-1)(n-2)$. With $k = 1$ it again gives us the known trivial and standard solutions, $(n-1)(n-2)(n-6)$. With $k = 2$, $\eqref{eq:cub}$ is $n^3 - 15n^2 + 50n - 48 = 0$, from which we can factor the known trivial solution: $(n-2)(n^2 - 13n + 24) = 0$. But the other factor has no integer solutions. For general $k$, we can apply the Cubic formula. We find that the discriminant $\Delta$ is $4(-27k^6 + 108k^4 + 18k^2 + 1)$, which is positive for $k = 0,1,2$ and negative for $k \geq 3$, so that it has three real roots for $k \leq 2$ but only one real root for $k \geq 3$. This root turns out to be $$ 2k + 1 - \sqrt[3]{-3k^3 + \sqrt{k^6 - 4k^4 - \frac{2}{3}k^2 - \frac{1}{27}}} - \sqrt[3]{-3k^3 - \sqrt{k^6 - 4k^4 - \frac{2}{3}k^2 - \frac{1}{27}}}. $$ I don't think that this can ever be an integer, but I don't know how to prove this. Unfortunately it's not sufficient to show that the contents of the cube roots cannot be perfect cubes, since even if neither is an integer, their sum still could be. However, no solutions exist for $n$ up to 10,000 (checked in the table provided at OEIS A000292.)

We can at least check if any answers to our original question have the difference $n - m = 3$ by looking at the above root, with $k = 5$. It's about 25.268, not an integer, so any extra solutions have the difference at least 4.

For $r = 4$, a similar "negation" trick should work as for $r = 2$. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to yield extra positive solutions. The equation $[n]_4 = 2[n-k]_4$ expands to $$\begin{equation}\tag{3}\label{eq:qrt}n^4 - (8k + 6)n^3 + (12k^2 + 36k + 11)n^2 - (8k^3 + 36k^2 + 44k + 6)n + (2k^4 + 12k^3 + 22k^2 + 12k) = 0.\end{equation}$$ Starting from the standard solution, $[8]_4 = 2[7]_4$, we have another solution, $[8]_4 = 2[-4]_4$, with difference $k = 12$. And indeed, we can factor $(n - 8)$ out of equation $\eqref{eq:qrt}$ with $k = 12$, $$ n^4 - 102n^3 + 2171n^2 - 19542n + 65520 = (n-8)(n^3 - 94n^2 + 1419n - 8190). $$ But the other factor is a cubic with one real root, which isn't an integer. There are no solutions (besides the trivial and standard) up to $n=1002$ (checked in the table provided at OEIS A000332.)

When $k=5$, $\eqref{eq:qrt}$ becomes $n^4 - 46n^3 + 491n^2 - 2126n + 3360$, which (according to Wolfram Alpha) has no integer solutions. So for the original problem, $n - m > 4$.


Related OEIS sequences:

  • A000389: $\binom{n}{5}$ and table up to $n=1000$
  • A001109 are values of $k$ such that $\binom{n}{2} = 2\binom{n-k}{2}$, or equivalently $\binom{n}{k} = 2\binom{n-2}{k}$, has a solution $n = \bigl(4k + 1 + \sqrt{8k^2 + 1}\bigr)/2$.
  • A082291 are the values of $n-2$ in the above, offset by one. That is, A001109 begins 0,1,6 and A082291 begins 2, 19, 118. $\binom{2+2}{1} = 2\binom{2}{1}$, and $\binom{19+2}{6} = 2\binom{19}{6}$.
Nick Matteo
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  • I was also trying to solve it along similar lines of thought, and also proved that the case $r=2$ has infinitely many solutions, by reducing that case to a Pell equation which had infinitely many solutions, and those solutions can be determined recursively so probably (I didn`t try) the recursion can be find for infinitely many or all such $n$ which are solutons to the case $r=2$. Nice work. –  Apr 08 '13 at 11:20
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WRONG The problem generalizes to the drawing of $N>1$ balls. The solution for any $N$ is characterized by a telescoping product of probabilities (one for each ball drawn) whose first factor is $\frac{2N-1}{2N}$ with subsequent factors progressively smaller. The solutions are unique UNPROVEN: consider perturbations. Increasing (or decreasing) the first factor increases (or decreases WRONG) all the factors and so the product. Thus the first factor of any solution is fixed. With the first factor fixed, some measure of the overall shrinkage of subsequent factors must be constant if the product is not to change; but if we multiply the numerator and denominator of the first factor by some natural number greater than 1, we reduce the relative shrinkage from factor to factor, which increases the product. Thus the telescoping product is immutable; so every solution has $2N$ balls with all but one being blue. [Apparently rude edits added by author.]

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    Some of the telescoping products mentioned: $$\begin{align}N=2\quad&&\frac34\cdot\frac23&=\frac12,\N=3\quad&&\frac56\cdot\frac45\cdot\frac34&=\frac12,\N=4\quad&&\frac78\cdot\frac67\cdot\frac56\cdot\frac45&=\frac12;\end{align}$$ and my claim is that the factors can't be fiddled (because of their mutual relation) without altering the product; so all solutions for $N>1$ are unique. – mindless oaf Apr 06 '13 at 00:23
  • I don't know why mathjax doesn't like me. – mindless oaf Apr 06 '13 at 00:32
  • (I didn't downvote this, but.) A lot of people have tried for more than a week to figure out whether the solution is unique for just drawing $5$ balls, and you go ahead and claim there's a unique solution for drawing any $N$ balls in general. :-) Try writing down your proof clearly for the $N = 5$ case in question here... – ShreevatsaR Apr 06 '13 at 19:50
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    The solution comes from $$\frac12=\frac9{10}\cdot\frac89\cdot\frac78\cdot\frac67\cdot\frac56.$$ Each factor is the probability of drawing a blue ball, so each but the first relates to the previous by having numerator and denominator each less by one. – mindless oaf Apr 06 '13 at 22:24
  • (1) Replacing the first factor by $\frac pq\gt\frac9{10}$ swells each of the following factors and so swells the product. (2) Replacing the first factor by $\frac rs\lt\frac9{10}$ shrinks each of the following factors and so shrinks the product. (3) Replacing the first factor by $\frac{9k}{10k}$ with $k\gt1$ swells each of the following factors and so swells the product. (4) The argument is the same for any number of factors greater than one. – mindless oaf Apr 06 '13 at 22:24
  • But it's certainly not true for $N=2$, which has infinitely many solutions, e.g. $\binom{21}{2} = 2\binom{15}{2}$ and $\binom{120}{2} = 2 \binom{85}{2}$. And each of these corresponds to extra solutions for bigger $N$: $\binom{21}{6} = 2\binom{19}{6}$ and $\binom{120}{35} = 2\binom{118}{35}$. – Nick Matteo Apr 07 '13 at 03:28
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    @mindlessoaf: Unfortunately, your claim that if $\frac{r}{s} < \frac{9}{10}$ then $\frac{r-1}{s-1} < \frac{8}{9}$ is not true. For instance, $\frac{899}{1000} < \frac{900}{1000} = \frac{9}{10}$, but $\frac{898}{999} > \frac{8}{9}$. That is, your arguments like "swells each of the following factors" and "shrinks each of the following factors" do not hold. – ShreevatsaR Apr 07 '13 at 03:46
  • @Kundor: I don't doubt your assertions, but they seem not to apply to drawing 2 blue balls with probability 1/2. – mindless oaf Apr 07 '13 at 07:31
  • @ShreevatsR: Yes, thank you. The swelling is not wrong, only the shrinking; and the error has interesting implications. – mindless oaf Apr 07 '13 at 07:34
  • @mindlessoaf: Wrt to your comment to Kundor: they do apply to drawing 2 blue balls with probability 1/2. According to you, the only solution for $N=2$ balls should be $\frac12 = \frac34 \cdot \frac23$, but Kundor exhibits other solutions like (with $120$ balls, $85$ of which are blue) $\frac12 = \frac{85}{120} \cdot \frac{84}{119}$. Similarly, for $N=6$ balls, there is, in addition to the $12$-balls-$11$-blue solution, which you incorrectly claim is unique, the solution $\frac12 = \frac{19}{21} \cdot \frac{18}{20} \cdot \frac{17}{19} \cdot \frac{16}{18} \cdot\frac{15}{17} \cdot \frac{14}{16}$. – ShreevatsaR Apr 07 '13 at 11:19
  • @ShreevatsR: Thank you. This is very helpful. – mindless oaf Apr 07 '13 at 15:57
  • @Kundor: Thank you. I see now that you have told me something I wanted very much to know. – mindless oaf Apr 07 '13 at 16:00