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Earlier title was : 'Equivalence between infimum's definitions'. But, that changed as failure occurred in proof as shown below.
I am sorry, if naive, but this is my experience with proving the part (ii) that lead to change in title.

My main assertion below is that cannot take an element smaller than infimum, as tinkering to prove an axiomatic definition is not possible.

Based on $\epsilon$ have a "new definition" of infimum. It is based on the fact that given a lower bound of a non-empty set $X$ over reals, can add any $\epsilon\gt 0$ to get an element of the set.

Given a nonempty set $X$, $i'$ is an infimum if $i'$ is a lower bound of a non-empty set $X\in \mathbb{R}$ and $\forall \epsilon\gt 0, X\cap [i', i'+ \epsilon)\ne \emptyset$.

The conventional definition is given by:

Let there be a nonempty set $X$ with infimum $i$, then $i$ the highest lower bound.

Let, the conventional definition be denoted by 'Def. 1', while the "new definition" by 'Def. 2'.

Need establish relation between the magnitudes of $i,i′$.

Q: Need show that the two definitions are equivalent by proving the following two conditional statements:

(i) If $i = inf(X)$, as given by Defn. 1, then $i$ is the infimum, as given by Defn. 2. Here, assume that Defn. 1 holds, and use this assumption to prove that Defn. 2 holds.

Since $i'$ is a lower bound of $X, i \ge i'$. Now, suppose that $i \gt i'$. Let $\epsilon := i-i'$. Then $X\cap [i', i' +\epsilon) \ne \emptyset \implies [i', i) \,\, \ne \emptyset$, which contradicts the assumption that $i$ is a lower bound for $X$, which should have implied $i\le i'$. So, combining the two facts get: $i'=i$

(ii) If $i' = inf(X)$, as given by Defn. 2, then $i$ is the infimum, as given by Defn. 1. Here, assume that Defn. 2 holds, and use this assumption to prove that Defn. 1 holds.

Given $i'$ is the infimum, let $i$ also be a lower bound of $X$. So, $X\cap[i, i+\epsilon) \ne \emptyset, \,\, \forall \epsilon \gt 0$. Suppose, for contradiction, there is another lower bound, let $t$, such that $t \gt i$.
Let $\epsilon:= t-i$. Then, $X\cap [i, i +\epsilon) \ne \emptyset \implies X\cap [i, t)\ne \emptyset$.

But, want a better proof in part (ii), that considers $t$ to be a still lower bound than $i$.
But then $\epsilon:= i-t$.
So, $X\cap [i, i +\epsilon) \ne \emptyset \implies [i, 2i-t)\ne \emptyset$. Hence, need $2i -t \gt i$. This implies $i \gt t $, but there is no proof by contradiction here, just a restatement.

------------ My guess is that the failure comes from attempt to prove an axiom (i.e., the infimum is the $glb$ of a non-empty set, bounded from below), & the solution is to directly use the axiom.

Also, have alternate proof that takes a simpler approach assuming the infimum property of a non-empty set, bounded from below, as an axiom, & request its vetting:

(i) By assuming Defn. 1, can state that the lower bound of Defn. 1 must match that of Defn. 2. Hence, the lower bound $i=i'$.

But, by this cannot impose any restriction on the open upper bound $i+\epsilon$ (for Defn. 1) $wrt$ $i′+\epsilon$ (for Def. 2).

(ii) By assuming Defn. 2, $X\cap [i', i'+ \epsilon)\ne \emptyset, \,\, \forall \epsilon \gt 0$. It implies that for $X \cap [i, i+ \epsilon)\ne \emptyset, \,\, \forall \epsilon \gt 0$ if $i−i'\lt \epsilon$. This condition is needed to have the higher end of the interval $[i, i+ \epsilon) \le i'+ \epsilon$. This is shown by the below proof by contradiction:

Let $i-i'=\epsilon, \epsilon \gt 0 \implies i=i'+\epsilon \implies i$ is not infimum.

But, have assumed by Defn. 1, that $i$ is infimum. So, the only possible value is $\epsilon=0$.

jiten
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    I assume that you are talking about real subsets? Then, indeed, the infimum/supremum are axioms (ref. term: completeness of the real numbers). – Maximilian Janisch May 10 '19 at 22:27
  • @MaximilianJanisch So it means, the second approach is the one that would work. – jiten May 10 '19 at 22:28
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    See here: http://mathonline.wikidot.com/epsilon-definition-of-the-supremum-and-infimum-of-a-bounded. I think you did the same thing – Maximilian Janisch May 10 '19 at 22:40
  • @MaximilianJanisch Yes, in the first attempt. – jiten May 10 '19 at 22:51
  • @MaximilianJanisch So, actually I should not have attempted to change the part (ii), as that is same as using infimum as an axiom, & is a more formal approach. – jiten May 10 '19 at 22:59
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    Concepts are not axioms. Your current title does not make much sense. What are you actually trying to say? – Andrés E. Caicedo May 10 '19 at 23:33
  • @AndrésE.Caicedo I mean to say that proof for part (ii) can not be twisted to have $t \lt i$, as all should be using the definition of infimum. So, can only take an element $\gt$ infimum, as it is an axiomatic definition with tinkering to prove that not possible. For me, axiom is an underlying assumption that cannot be proved by further smaller assumptions. – jiten May 11 '19 at 00:04
  • Also, why close it, when you cannot convince me. I took a day thinking it. And the fact that axioms cannot be proved, will reappear somewhere else too. Need generosity & help, not censure for genuine attempts. If my assumption is wrong, please prove it. Otherwise, actively confirm it. – jiten May 11 '19 at 00:21
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    Why you wrote makes no sense. Hence "unclear". – Andrés E. Caicedo May 11 '19 at 00:28
  • @AndrésE.Caicedo I wrote because want to be clear that any attempt to tinker with an axiomatic definition will lead nowhere. This example is a beautiful illustration of this fact. I feel it is a very good illustration. – jiten May 11 '19 at 00:36
  • @MaximilianJanisch Is completeness equivalent to the axiom of choice? – Ovi May 11 '19 at 00:42
  • Yes! The real numbers can’t be constructed without the axiom of choice (or something equivalent) – Maximilian Janisch May 11 '19 at 06:31
  • It appears you have tried to think too much into trivialities. That the two definitions are equivalent is almost obvious if one knows how order relations work. Your approach appears to be lost in symbolism. – Paramanand Singh May 11 '19 at 10:36
  • The question is akin to the equivalence of statements "there is no greatest natural number" and "Given any $n\in\mathbb {N} $ there exists an $m\in\mathbb {N} $ with $m>n$". – Paramanand Singh May 11 '19 at 11:08
  • Here is the axiom that I was referring to: https://faculty.math.illinois.edu/~hildebr/347.summer14/completeness.pdf – Maximilian Janisch May 11 '19 at 13:08
  • @Ovi: What Maximilian says is simply false; the normal construction of the real numbers does not depend on the axiom of choice at all. – user21820 Jun 01 '19 at 10:08
  • @user21820 Ah okay thanks for clarifying. Nice to see you btw :) – Ovi Jun 01 '19 at 11:53
  • @Ovi: No problem; you can also find me in the usual chat-rooms. =) – user21820 Jun 01 '19 at 12:21
  • @user21820 Will try to swing by sometime; I'm at work right now lol – Ovi Jun 01 '19 at 15:34

1 Answers1

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  • The whole text is just about definition of infimum and prove that an alternative definition is equivalent. The text is not about completeness of the real number.

  • When you ask if something is an axiom, state clearly what is the "something" that you are referring to. While there are some axioms that involve supremum, it doesn't mean anything involving supremum is an axiom. A noun can't be an axiom.

  • When you mention upper bound or lower bound, try to associate it with a set. Be as clear as possible.

  • Only use a notation after you define it, $t$ is used before it was defined.

  • In the proof of $(i)$, you started the proof assuming that an element $i'$ that satisfies Definition $2$ exists. Why should it exists?

  • Assuming that you have established the existence of $i'$. From $X \cap [i',i'+\epsilon) \neq \emptyset$, you wrote $[i',i)\ne \emptyset$, even though it is a true statement but I believe, you intend to write $X \cap [i',i) \ne \emptyset.$

  • Now, moving on to Definition $2$ and show that Definition $1$ is equivalent, let $i$ be a lower bound, it shouldn't have the guarantee that $X \cap [i, i+\epsilon) \ne \emptyset, \forall \epsilon >0.$ What is this $i$ that you are using?

  • I have no idea what you are talking about infimum property as an axiom.

Siong Thye Goh
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  • Very good point wise rebuttal. +1 – Paramanand Singh May 11 '19 at 10:31
  • Addressed points: 1. If state about book, then having 11 more chapters. Else, confused if refer to my answer. 2. sorry, it evolved into this form after seeing that taking $t\lt s$ doesn't work, it was risky (see the 'close' votes) but thought it was a good way to see in practice significance of not tinkering with an axiom. Can see, then only restatement of $t\lt s$ occurs. 3.done, 4. Removed mention of $t$ in italics before its defn. 5.Stated why $X\cap [i', i'+ϵ)$ should exist, but still need defn.1 to specify $i'$. 6.Done. 7.Unclear, hope lone deleted text shows it. 8. assume have stated it. – jiten May 11 '19 at 18:01
  • Please respond to my last comment. I take best efforts to understand your points (in general, not only this). – jiten May 12 '19 at 08:53
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  • I am not talking about your book. Your post is not about the completeness of real number. 5. My point is why should $i'$ exists? Anything involving it can only exists if you justify that $i'$ exists in the first place. If you have done so, I am sorry that I can't see it. 7. For (ii), you mention let $i$ also be lower bound for $X$. $i$ is any lower bound? are you sure? 8. I think you are confusing "definition" from "axiom". Your "proof" of $(i)$ after the horizontal line is totally beyond my ability to comprehend. Reminder: avoid long comment threads.
  • – Siong Thye Goh May 12 '19 at 12:51
  • Regarding the first point, request help on how to introduce completeness of real numbers (order completeness axiom) into it. Completeness is concerned with cuts and showing that there are no holes in the real number line, & so with showing supremum exists, if upper bounds exist. This is used further to show infimum exists, if set is bounded from below; by taking from set $S$, the negative set $-S$, & $inf(s)=-sup(-S)$ . This axiom is used to derive for continuous sets over infinite domain the fact that they are unbounded. But, still confused how & (above all) why to draw a link to the axiom. – jiten May 13 '19 at 06:20
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    The question is not about completeness of real numbers. It is just asking for a proof of equivalence of definitions. It is a miscommunication due to vagueness of the post. – Siong Thye Goh May 13 '19 at 15:22
  • Please see my post at : https://math.stackexchange.com/q/3229322/424260. It is regarding using linear combination of integers to prove by contradiction that $\sqrt{8}$ is not irrational, as needed in approach 1. – jiten May 17 '19 at 11:29
  • no idea for now and also I am traveling for a few days. – Siong Thye Goh May 17 '19 at 11:53