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As I learned German, I was taught that the dative case, for example the word "mir," essentially means "to me" just as "dir" means "to you."

As such, when is it acceptable to add "zu?"

Komm zu mir!

Er hat mir einen Apfel gegeben.

I may be answering my own question. Am I right in assuming that when you must express "to me" literally, it is okay to say "zu mir," and when it should be implied, it is simply "mir?"

It seems whenever I have a question, I can't think of the examples that led me to ask the question, so those will have to do for now. :-)

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Dustin
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    Basically, if you express a direction, you use "zu", and if you just address the "whom", then it is without "zu". – äüö Nov 24 '14 at 15:46
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    I have the feeling you are trying too hard to translate word by word. It is "zu mir kommen" because the word "kommen" uses a destination that needs a preposition, e.g. "zu"; and "zu" requires the dative case. And it is "mir geben" because the verb "geben" requires a dative object. What I try to say, essentially is: You have to learn by heart which cases/prepositions a verb requires and you must learn by heart which case a preposition requires. – Chris Nov 24 '14 at 15:51
  • You can say "komm mir" as in "Komm mir nicht so an", but that expresses a sentiment similar to "Don't you talk to me like that." Or "Komm mir nicht zu/so nah!", "Don't get so close to me." – blutorange Nov 24 '14 at 16:37
  • Good question. Best example might be "mir sagen" and "zu mir sagen" which are both correct. In most cases it is one or the other though and, locational movement aside, I doubt there is logic behind it. – Emanuel Nov 24 '14 at 19:15
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    This is indeed a tricky question. Some verbs even allow both but with different meaning. For instance, you can read in a newspaper: "Auf der linken Seite setzt Holtby sich durch und bringt den Ball zu van der Vaart in den Strafraum." In this context, it would be wrong to say "...und bringt van der Vaart den Ball..." In the given example they're talking about a successful pass, but with the other structure you would understand that Holtby holds the ball in his hands, runs to van der Vaart and gives him the ball. Bad enough, though, that the given sentence above can mean both (without context). – Em1 Nov 24 '14 at 22:09
  • Chris nailed it, and Emanuel found an exception (and furthermore "zu jmd. X sagen" can also mean "jmd. als X bezeichnen"/"jmd. ein X nennen"). –  Nov 25 '14 at 08:31
  • @Chris I realise that English does not translate directly into German and I am not really having any issues with the memorisation of the cases that verbs may take. With due respect, I simply don't understand when to add "zu" and when not to. I am very grateful for your insight but I do not feel that your answer has addressed my question. – Dustin Nov 25 '14 at 15:57
  • @Dustin: Can you elaborate on what you mean by "literally" and "implied" in your question? In both "give it to me" and "come to me" there is an explicit "to me" present in the English phrase. - If you are referring to my answer below, then the core answer is the last paragraph. In essence, "zu" isn't "added". The "mir" belongs to the preposition and not to the verb "come". – Chris Nov 25 '14 at 16:07
  • @Chris Sure. Using my second example, "Er hat mir einen Apfel gegeben," the sentence can be translated into English literally as either "He has given to me an apple" or "He has given me an apple." I was taught that in German, mir does not literally mean "to me," (it is simply the dative form of "me") but it is implied and that is how it should be thought of. Conversely, "zu mir" can ONLY be translated as "to me," from what I understand. – Dustin Nov 25 '14 at 16:12
  • "zu mir" cannot only be translated as "to me". Take for example "du passt zu mir" "you suit/fit me". Here, "zu jemandem passen" is a fixed expression that has to be learnt by heart. It includes the preposition "zu", that requires dative case. On the other hand "suit/fit so." does not require a preposition. That was my main point: One has to learn by heart where you need a preposition (e.g. "zu jemandem kommen") and where you need a dative or accusative object ("jemandem geben"). Hmmm... I'm thinking about how to make the point of my answer clearer?! – Chris Nov 25 '14 at 16:29
  • @Chris Thank you. If I understand correctly, whether or not the addition of "zu" is appropriate is dependent upon whether the verb can take a preposition or not? – Dustin Nov 25 '14 at 16:32
  • @Dustin: Essentially, yes. (And again, "zu" is not "added". If you compare the sentences "Ich kaufe dir ein Buch" and "Ich kaufe für dich ein Buch" you wouldn't say that you "added" the word "für". - In some sentences you have a dative object; in some sentences you have a prepositional object whose preposition may require a dative. That "zu" needs a dative is by pure chance; the two datives in "zu jemandem kommen" and "jemandem geben" don't do the same job.) – Chris Nov 25 '14 at 17:11
  • @Dustin: I have made some effort to re-structure my answer. I hope I could make my point a bit clearer. :-) – Chris Nov 25 '14 at 19:30
  • @Chris I see that. Thank you very much. I'm grateful and it is much clearer. :) – Dustin Nov 26 '14 at 02:10

1 Answers1

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First, let's consider the structure of the two expressions jemandem (etwas) geben and zu jemandem kommen.
It depends on the verb which object it takes (e.g. a prepositonal object, a dative object, an accusative object):

  • The verb geben requires two objects: a dative object (receiver) and an accusative object (given thing):

    jemandem(=Dativ) etwas(=Akkusativ) geben.

    Therefore, your second example uses solely the dative pronoun mir without any preposition.

    English has lost most of its cases, so there isn't anything that can be really compared to the German dative case; English has no cases to distinguish two objects. It uses a different means to mark the receiver and the given thing: In the sentence give me the book this is done by word order; in give it to me by the preposition to.

  • The verb kommen needs a destination, where the person is going to. That destination is linked to kommen by a preposition, i.e., kommen takes a prepositional object. Which prepositions are acceptable has to be learnt by heart or deduced from context via logic. The case of the noun following the preposition is determined by the preposition itself. For example, you could say:

    er kommt in das Haus (in + Akkusativ; into the house)
    er kommt auf das Dach (auf + Akkusativ; onto the roof)
    er kommt zu der Straße (zu + Dativ; to, towards the street)

    Note, that the so called Wechselpräpositionen use accusative case when refering to a direction rather than a location.
    The preposition zu is an appropriate one to go with "kommen". It isn't a Wechselpräposition and it always requires dative case. So you can see that the preposition zu is not really "added" in the phrase komm zu mir as if there were a hole where you can just put the zu in. Don't think of it as if the mir was there all the time and you only had to decide whether or not to put the zu there. The reasoning is the other way round: kommen can go with the preposition zu which requires the dative pronoun mir.

Now, let's think about how to me can be translated to German. By equating mir = to me or zu mir = to me things are being oversimplified.
There are several possibilities for translating to me to German, depending on context:

  • translate it as a pure dative mir (as in give it to me = gib es mir)
  • translate it as an accusative mich (as in don't lie to me = lüg mich nicht an)
  • translate it as prepositional object zu mir (as in come to me = komm zu mir)
  • translate it as a different prepositional object, e.g. für mich (as in sounds good to me = hört sich für mich gut an)

To choose the correct one, you have to know whether the verb in question needs a dative object or an accusative object or a prepositional object. And if the verb requires a prepositional object, then you must know/deduce which prepositions are possible and which case each of these prepositions takes.

Finally, let's come back to your question:

Am I right in assuming that when you must express "to me" literally, it is okay to say "zu mir," and when it should be implied, it is simply "mir?"

No. I hope it became clear that you cannot simply say that whenever an English sentence contains to me it has to be translated by zu mir or that an "implied" to me must be translated as mir. English and German need not use the same expressions/structures:

  • Take for example the phrase I ask him. Somehow it is "implied" that the question points to him; he is the receiver of what is asked. Nonetheless, you don't say I ask to him nor do you say ich frage ihm(=Dativ).
  • Another counter example would be something happened to me. There is a literal to me in this sentence. However, the German translation would be mir ist etwas passiert, not zu mir ist etwas passiert.
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Chris
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  • "mir ist etwas zugestoßen" (viz something happened to me). "Ich höre [ihm] nicht zu, er will auch nicht zuhören" ("I do not listen [to him], he does not want to listen, too"). This is very confusing. This shows that to and zu are often learned as part of an idiomatic collocation, on a lexical level, not as prepositions proper, nor conjunctions. Cp En "I just don't like to". – vectory Sep 21 '19 at 12:24