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I am a recent PhD graduate in mathematics, and I will be starting a tenure-track position this fall at a small liberal arts college in a northern US city.

My graduate degree was completed at a large university in a college town, and I made occasional use of dating apps during my time there. They were only mildly useful at best, but they facilitated interaction with people outside my normal social circle, which I enjoyed.

My instinct tells me that I should avoid such apps in my new position, but I'd like to seek outside opinions. I already have some of my own ideas, but what are some potential pitfalls of maintaining dating app profiles? Should I simply refrain from using them? Would anyone in my department or administration have a problem with me using them if they knew?

Since it might matter, I am a 27-year-old male, and my new city is home to about 100,000 people.

Note: I am well-aware that dating students at my university is a bad idea. (For what it's worth, I am not interested in meeting people more than three or four years younger than me anyway.) I'm looking for advice that goes beyond some of the more obvious points.

Coder
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MathAnon
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  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. – ff524 Jul 30 '17 at 20:19
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    The more important question is probably what kind of information you're sharing or how you're presenting yourself on the dating app. I can certainly think of a few less-than-appropriate things that could very well affect your career (if traced back to you), much like social media can. – NotThatGuy Aug 01 '17 at 14:41
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    Pretty sure I'm located in the city you're in. Academics use them all the time - I've met PhDs, MDs, JDs, etc on Tinder for instance. I don't think anyone will have a problem. Maybe try to avoid undergrads if you feel there'll be an issue, but considering that there's a lack of men here (if you're where I think you are), age-disparate and education disparate relationships aren't really viewed poorly. – Andrew Alexander Aug 02 '17 at 19:34
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    Would the Question or Answers be different for old professors? – Basil Bourque Aug 03 '17 at 06:02
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    Fun fact: I (junior professor) got to know my wife through a dating app... Just for the record... – Patric Hartmann Aug 06 '17 at 13:17

10 Answers10

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Professors both young and old are known to use dating apps. So do students, doctors, engineers, lawyers, dental hygienists, and any other kind of person. In other words, there is nothing about being a professor that disqualifies one from using dating apps (or that makes one a special kind of human being in any other way, contrary to what seems to be the popular belief on this site at least).

The only pitfall I can think of is mild embarrassment, but that's true for everyone using these apps whether they are a professor or not. My advice is, go out there and have fun, worry about yourself and don't care too much what other people think. And if you want to date students too, personally I don't see a problem either (especially considering your age) as long as they are not your students and you otherwise behave ethically and responsibly.

(Edit: in certain U.S. institutions there is a general prohibition on faculty dating undergraduates - thanks to @EllenSpertus for the reference in the comments. Given your stated age preference this is not very relevant to your question since students in that age range would typically be graduate students, but it's worth at least checking the policy at your institution to make sure you are aware of the rules.)

Stevoisiak
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Dan Romik
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    @DanRomik While you (or in large part society) might not have a problem with the OP dating students, different institutions have very different rules regarding this. This year my university recently passed a recent blanket rule barring any such fraternization. – PVAL Jul 30 '17 at 08:56
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    @PVAL interesting (and surprising). Would you mind telling us which university you're at, or at least which country? – Dan Romik Jul 30 '17 at 10:28
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    I don't know where @PVAL is located. I do know that professors dating students is a big no no in Taiwan. I don't know if there is law prohibiting it. But, everybody, professors and students, would think you're a bad professor. Generally speaking, professors earn very high respect here and also expected to have a very high moral standard. You can argue that dating a student is not a crime. Still, ... – Nobody Jul 30 '17 at 11:30
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    @scaaahu thanks, that's interesting. Indeed I would argue that, and moreover I would argue that dating a student says nothing about how high your moral standards are or aren't. And to make sure we're talking about the same thing, when I say "dating a student" I mean "dating a person who happens to be a student at your university". That's very different from "dating a person who is a student in a class you're teaching", which is a no-no also in the U.S. and probably most other developed countries. – Dan Romik Jul 30 '17 at 11:49
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    "dating a person who happens to be a student at your university".could become "dating a person who is a student in a class you're teaching" because the student could choose to enroll in your class after she had a date with you. – Nobody Jul 30 '17 at 12:11
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    @scaaahu indeed, that's why policies exist to make sure ethical principles aren't compromised in the sort of situation you describe. I don't have space to explain the details here - basically either the student couldn't take the class or the professor wouldn't be allowed to teach it - but the point is reasonable universities find ways of handling this problem without imposing draconian blanket prohibitions (which I'm guessing may be illegal in the US) preventing professors from entering consensual romantic relationship with a large group of people over whom they have no supervisory authority. – Dan Romik Jul 30 '17 at 12:20
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    @scaaahu by the way, according to your logic, "dating a random person you met online" could become "dating a person who is your employee" if you are anybody who manages people, since the person could at some later time be hired by your company and assigned to your group. (And if today you are not a manager, well, you could become one in the future couldn't you...?) So, basically if we worried too much about this sort of thing, no two people should ever be allowed to date. That's clearly absurd. – Dan Romik Jul 30 '17 at 12:27
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    I know what you're saying. The issue is the professors enjoy high respect, but bound by more moral rules. Same for politicians. (At least in my location). An elected official had endured a lot scolding and curses just because he and his assistant were caught going into a motel recently. – Nobody Jul 30 '17 at 12:33
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    Many schools in the US do ban romantic relations/sex between students and faculty. https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/02/05/harvard-professors-banned-from-having-sex-with-undergrads/jKt4YooYpD76Caj4mdPB8K/story.html https://psmag.com/education/the-end-of-hot-for-teacher-professor-student-relationships-64412 – Ellen Spertus Jul 30 '17 at 19:53
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    @scaaahu: if that's the logic, I guess professors' children cannot attend the university? Because the kids could choose to go to their parent's class? What we do in more reasonable places is to declare conflicts of interest, and take measures to avoid them. – Martin Argerami Jul 30 '17 at 22:36
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    @PVAL: what would your university do to me, that I'm married to a student? Fire me? Ask me to divorce? Expel the student? I'm really curious about the implementation of these kind of measures. – Martin Argerami Jul 30 '17 at 22:38
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    @MartinArgerami and at Dan: Here is the the policy statement. https://policies.utexas.edu/policies/consensual-relationships There is an exception given to legal marriages. – PVAL Jul 30 '17 at 23:52
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    @PVAL good to know, thanks. I see that, as with the other examples given, this one also only applies to professors dating undergraduates. It's interesting in any case. – Dan Romik Jul 31 '17 at 06:53
  • Reminds me of a crude bash.org quote where one friend was caught buying a rather embarrassing item and laughs were had until they realized to have caught someone there, the witness had to also be at that place. Anyone who gives you flack for being on the dating site, well, they also were on that same dating site! – corsiKa Jul 31 '17 at 14:59
  • At my university (at least according to one professor) dating (even their current student) wasn't verboten, just would be frowned upon. – Wayne Werner Jul 31 '17 at 18:05
  • "My advice is, go out there and have fun, worry about yourself and don't care too much what other people think." Do you mean "don't worry about yourself"? – David Richerby Aug 01 '17 at 10:20
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    @DavidRicherby I meant "worry about yourself", as opposed to worrying so much about what others think about him that it prevents him from doing what makes him happy. – Dan Romik Aug 01 '17 at 11:54
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Other than agreeing with @DanRomik, I'll add that I do not believe what you take as an assumption:

I am well-aware that dating students at my university is a bad idea.

Dating your own students is usually a bad idea; but whoever is not likely to be taking one of your courses should be just fine. Avoiding everyone in your university - which may be up to a third of the eligible population in town in terms of age - does not make sense IMO. I mean, the most likely people you would get close to are people who are around you in your daily life, and much/most of that is at your university.

Of course - I'm saying this based on your being 27 years old. The somewhat-older undergraduate student and the graduate student population definitely comes within the age range you're considering, or thereabouts.

einpoklum
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    At many colleges in the United States, it is against either the explicit or implicit rules for a professor to date any student, whether or not the student is in the professor's department or class. I agree with the OP that it is a bad idea. – Ellen Spertus Jul 30 '17 at 19:44
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    @EllenSpertus can you name even one college in the US with such an explicit rule? (It still wouldn't support your "many colleges" claim, but it would be something at least.) I am having a really hard time believing this, for reasons that I just explained in my updated answer. And what are "implicit rules"? If there is such a thing as implicit rules, where does one learn what they are, and how is one expected to avoid breaking them? Basically your comment sounds like unsubstantiated fear-mongering to me, sorry. – Dan Romik Jul 30 '17 at 19:55
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    I can name two schools, from searches I did in the past few minutes: Harvard (http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/02/05/384080539/harvard-bans-sexual-relationships-between-professors-and-students) and U Conn (http://www.courant.com/opinion/editorials/hc-ed-sex-policy-at-uconn-20130808-story.html). – Ellen Spertus Jul 30 '17 at 19:58
  • As for implicit rules, your colleagues can vote against your receiving tenure if you do things they don't like, including violating institutional culture. Whether or not it's explicitly banned at my institution, dating students would not be a wise move for a junior faculty member. – Ellen Spertus Jul 30 '17 at 20:00
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    From my faculty handbook: "Although Mills College does not police the private lives of its faculty and staff members, it expects them to avoid unprofessional behavior. In general, it is unprofessional of faculty and staff to break the bond of trust that exists between an educational institution and its students by pursuing romantic or sexual relationships with students." I stand by my saying dating students would not be wise for a junior faculty member, even though we don't have a blanket ban. – Ellen Spertus Jul 30 '17 at 20:05
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    @EllenSpertus thanks, that's really interesting. I guess my theory that no U.S. institution would go as far as banning all faculty-student relationships was not entirely correct then. I respect your "bad idea" opinion and retract my accusation of fearmongering. At the same time, it's worth pointing out that the policies you cited only have a blanket prohibition on faculty relationships with undergraduates, so this is not very applicable to OP's situation (he is 27 and said he is not looking to date people more than 3-4 years younger than him). – Dan Romik Jul 30 '17 at 20:11
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    @DanRomik Thank you. You're right that the policies I cited were just about undergrads. I have not been able to find any that ban all dating between faculty and graduate students not under their direct supervision. – Ellen Spertus Jul 30 '17 at 20:30
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    @EllenSpertus: Are you sure that doesn't only apply to a faculty members' own students? Also, people like OP should really be excepted from such rules regardless of their merit in general. He's F'ing 27 years old! – einpoklum Jul 30 '17 at 22:15
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    @einpoklum If you follow the links, you will see those policies apply to all undergraduates. Whether these are good rules or not are beyond the scope of this question. – Ellen Spertus Jul 30 '17 at 22:18
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    Our policy, right from the handbook, is "Faculty members shall not enter into romantic or sexual relations with undergraduate students of the University". Plain and simple. Beyond that, relationships with people over who you excercise authority is also grounds for action. When the latter arises, the Intercessor must be called in to come up with a management plan that needs to be approved by university counsel. I suppose my point is that you should replace "students" by "graduate students" in the relevant sentence. – Scott Seidman Aug 01 '17 at 16:05
  • @ScottSeidman: Not plain and simple at all. First, again, students who are not your students are not people you exercise authority over. Second - these guidelines seem to have an underlying assumption of an age gap. It is not reasonable - and I would say unacceptable - to demand co-workers of a similar age range, who do not have authority over each other, not develop romantic or sexual relations. Some would argue that the same is true regardless of the age range but I'm being conservative here. – einpoklum Aug 01 '17 at 16:14
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    Our policy is absolutely cut and dried -- no undergrads. It doesn't mention undergrads who are close to you in age, it doesn't mention undergrads who you don't teach, it doesn't mention any exceptions to the undergrad rule at all. If I enter such a relationship, I would expect a job action, and I wouldn't expect to be able to offer a valid defense. After that, there is some wiggle room. It says nothing about avoiding coworkers who you don't exercise authority over. It gives you a path to daylight for situations in which authority situations arise. – Scott Seidman Aug 01 '17 at 16:21
  • Though I would imagine if you had a relationship with a person who then went on to become an undergrad, the Intercessor path would be appropriate. – Scott Seidman Aug 01 '17 at 16:22
  • @ScottSeidman: I understand your policy, I just think it's unreasonable and kind of extreme. – einpoklum Aug 01 '17 at 16:53
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Department chair in Mathematics at a mid-Atlantic comprehensive university here, who has been fortunate to recently hire a number of Assistant Professors. If one or more of them were to engage in online dating on my campus, I don't think that, by itself, would be of concern to anyone, provided all your interactions with students were professional. Recruiting new faculty is a lot of work; if we hired you, it is because we think that you are going to contribute to our program and our mission. We want our new faculty to be happy, and we don't want our new faculty telling others that our university is a place where folks cannot develop long-term relationships. The likely reaction of my faculty would be to wish you luck.

MidAtlanticMathChair
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I would set an appropriate date range to filter out the age ranges you might be cautious about. Ex) ignoring ages 18-21. As long as you are aware of it being completely public and are okay with that, then you should be fine, though.

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If you're ok with your profile being seen by your peers, students, their friends and Facebook's and maybe some meme's, sure go for it.

Unfortunately Teachers have to cop it from immature students, just be careful some guy you failed doesn't do something.

Perhaps tell your peers you are single and are any of them match makers or wing-men. Then resort to dating apps, that way the "well, it's no surprise I'm single" justification will work out better.

Jeremy Thompson
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    I think some of the warnings in the question is realistic. In particular, just be careful some guy you failed doesn't do something. In fact, not only some guy, but also some girl could do something that will let you regret. – Nobody Jul 30 '17 at 10:01
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    Warnings are correct but somehow general. I think that using dating applications should be avoided in a relationship, that is. Just keep a sober profile, but this applies to fb, too. Actually your page at the dating site should be sober and minimal. I think. – Alchimista Jul 30 '17 at 10:38
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    I agree the warning is sensible and quite possibly realistic, but people in other professions also "have to cop it" from possibly immature coworkers, subordinates, bosses, friends, relatives etc. I don't think this is a reason to stay off dating apps entirely, unless you are a super sensitive or shy person who can't stomach the embarrassment of people you know possibly seeing your profile. However it is an excellent reason not to post risqué photos of yourself or other very sensitive or personal information, either on a dating app profile or any other place online. – Dan Romik Jul 30 '17 at 12:06
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One important question you should think about is, how will people know that you have a dating app profile in the first place?

There are three ways:

  1. You've included information on the profile that personally identifies you and makes it possible to locate your profile with a search engine (e.g. name). That's easily avoided by being careful about what you include in the profile.

  2. The person found out because they themselves are using that dating app. In this case, there should be no embarrassment because they are doing the same thing as you!

  3. Someone else discovered your profile, recognized you, and then told another person who isn't using the app and whose opinion causes you embarrassment. Since there isn't anything wrong with a human being wanting to socialize, and this scenario is fairly unlikely anyway, I wouldn't be overly worried about it. You can counter this by keeping the profile content appropriate to minimize any possible embarrassment.

JBentley
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    Professors of a university are held to higher standards than undergraduates. They are expected to show a higher degree of maturity. I don't think point 2 is therefore applicable. "Message me if you want to smash!" on a Tinder profile of a freshman would barely interest anyone but found on a profile of your lecturer together with his face would instantly be shared among all students. I would definitely find it shareworthy. Whether you should be ashamed about it is another question that was already answered. – problemofficer - n.f. Monica Jul 30 '17 at 18:43
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    @problemofficer I dealt with the "message me if you want to smash!" part in the last sentence of point 3. A well written and respectable dating profile is nothing to be ashamed of. That might be the subject of another question, but it becomes relevant to this if you're going to claim that professors should be held to higher standards when it comes to dating in general (since the OP has removed dating students from this question). I do not accept that as a valid starting point. Why should professors be expected not to socialize outside of work in the same ways as anyone else? – JBentley Jul 30 '17 at 20:00
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    @problemofficer The flaw in your argument becomes obvious with, "they are expected to show a higher degree of maturity". Having a dating profile is not a sign of immaturity. Having an immature dating profile is a sign of immaturity. – JBentley Jul 30 '17 at 20:02
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    There is nothing inherently wrong with dating app and there is nothing wrong in being identifiable. You should start with assumption you will be identified sooner or later, because it's inevitable. The only issue one should care about is what he/she writes in the app. – Agent_L Jul 31 '17 at 11:42
  • Your argument in 3 is untrue (it sounds like you live in an ivory tower). Most students would tell each other when they find their profs in unexpected places (or post this online), just as it is often in CHeap newspapers when promiment people appear in unexpected places. – Thomas Oct 30 '19 at 20:25
  • @Thomas I'm not sure which part you are saying is untrue. I stand by the statement I made in no. 3 that "there isn't anything wrong with a human being wanting to socialize" and that if you are still concerned then you can "keep the profile content appropriate to minimize any possible embarrassment". I'm not sure how that makes it sound like I live in an ivory tower. There's also no need to be insulting if you disagree with my post. – JBentley Oct 31 '19 at 14:42
  • I mean the part "this scenario is fairly unlikely anyway". It is not. – Thomas Oct 31 '19 at 14:44
  • @Thomas You are looking at just one aspect which is that someone finds the profile, that person is a student, and that person tells other students. By unlikely I am referring to the total probability. The chance of the student finding the profile in the first place is not overly high (given that there are hundreds of dating sites, and their search criteria will be unlikely to overlap even if they are on the same site). Sure, it can happen, but the rest of my post deals with that. – JBentley Oct 31 '19 at 14:45
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Because you will be teaching at a small liberal arts college, which might have some parochial views, it is a good idea for you to delay your entry to online dating sites until you understand the culture of your new department, the college as a whole, and the town in which you are located. Once you understand your cultural and physical surroundings, you might decide not to use dating sites for awhile or, conversely, you may feel that using such sites are perfectly acceptable.

Whatever you decide, it would be ultimately fatal for you to date students from your institution or any other local school. For any instructor, students-as-dating prospects must remain terra incognita.

Docholl1
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    "it would be ultimately fatal for you to date students from your institution or any other local school": Personal beliefs apart, this is a totally unsupported claim, especially for a 27-years old person like the OP. – Massimo Ortolano Jul 31 '17 at 09:24
  • Thanks for the comment, but you might do some research on the issue of instructors dating students. My personal beliefs are irrelevant here. If an instructor dates a student and is found out, he or she will quickly be on a new career path. No school at any level permits an instructor to date a student. – Docholl1 Jul 31 '17 at 11:53
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    @Docholl1 my school does not prohibit romantic relationship between faculty and people who are students at the same institution (but not under direct supervision), so your claim "no school at any level..." is factually incorrect. This seems to be a common misunderstanding here, sadly. Would you care to clarify your comment in light of this so that we all become wiser about this topic? And where exactly does one go to "do some research on the issue of instructors dating students"? Telling people to go "do some research" without explaining how they are supposed to do that is not exactly helpful. – Dan Romik Jul 31 '17 at 12:02
  • Your school, then, is unusual. Google the topic, and you'll find that most schools have such a policy--use "consensual romantic relationships between faculty and students." Most schools prohibit such relationships between a teacher and his or her students; a very few do not prohibit a relationship berween a teacher and a student if there is no academic relationship, but discourage even that relationship because the power in that relationship is still unbalanced. – Docholl1 Jul 31 '17 at 12:41
  • Docholl, I know several professors who not only dated students, but also married them: some of the relationships ended badly, some no, as any other relationship between people. And in my experience, most of the schools do not forbid relationships between faculties and students. – Massimo Ortolano Jul 31 '17 at 12:44
  • With respect, most schools do prohibit such relationships. Google the phrase "consensual romantic relationships between faculty and students," and then start counting. There may be a few schools that are silent on such matters, but most colleges and universities have a policy that either prohibits or strongly discourages romantic relationships. In any case, there is no good professional outcome in a romantic teacher-student relationship. The key word here is "romantic." – Docholl1 Jul 31 '17 at 13:09
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    @Docholl1 with respect, I see no reason for any of us to give credence to your claim about "most schools", particularly when your earlier claim about "no school at any level" was easily refuted. My school is part of the University of California system, which has 10 campuses and is (I think) the largest public university system in the country. All of the UC campuses have the same sexual harassment policy that does not have a blanket prohibition on faculty-student relationships. So my school is very far from being unusual. If you want to convince us otherwise, it's up to you to provide evidence. – Dan Romik Jul 31 '17 at 14:22
  • I, too, come from the UC system--first, as a graduate student; second, as a lecturer for several years. Perhaps you should read the University of California Policy on Conflicts of Interest Created by Consensual Relationships, Sections II and III, which say, in part, that faculty and students are governed by the Faculty Code of Conduct, "which states that it is unacceptable faculty conduct, subject to disciplinary action, for a faculty member to enter into a romantic or sexual relationship with any student for whom the faculty member has any academic responsibility. . . ." That's a "no." – Docholl1 Jul 31 '17 at 16:01
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    @Docholl1 That quote contradicts your claims: in fact, a faculty member does not have academic responsibilities with all the students, and certainly not with any student of the other local schools. – Massimo Ortolano Jul 31 '17 at 16:14
  • Academic responsibilities for a student--such as writing a letter of recommendation--can come up two or three years after a class or a relationship ends, and a former romantic relationship with a student can lead to conflicts in innumerable cases. Dating students at other schools may not be prohibited, but any experienced teacher avoids even those entanglements because students change schools often, and if a stuent – Docholl1 Jul 31 '17 at 16:27
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    I think we can stop here and agree to disagree. – Massimo Ortolano Jul 31 '17 at 16:41
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    I hit the send button inadvertently. The bottom line is this: romantic relationships between a faculty member and his or her students are prohibited by most schools. Romantic relationships are strongly discouraged in all cases between faculty and students because, from a Human Resources perspective, all such relationships are asymmetrical and therefore dangerous for the institution. Yes, we'll have to agree to disagree. – Docholl1 Jul 31 '17 at 16:43
  • +1 for the idea of delaying and understanding the local culture, -1 for the blanket statements. – svavil Nov 06 '17 at 07:16
  • @Docholl1 In practice it works on a way that no one has problem with it until no one knows it. – peterh Dec 17 '17 at 06:51
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Please be aware of your role in your locale as a Professor. But at the same time this should not prevent you from being involved socially. Being social makes for a good professor in general because you will be empathetic to your students. Let the social aspect of your life lead you to a potential dating partner. If you use dating apps that just asking for trouble anyway. Social life is natural and it takes time to bond with people.

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  • I personally think this is the correct answer. In particular, Let the social aspect of your life lead you to a potential dating partner – Nobody Aug 01 '17 at 03:23
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    @scaaahu This is the correct answer for some people. Dating apps are wildly successful, which suggests that they are more effective than "being social and hoping to meet somebody" for many. – Flyto May 30 '18 at 08:41
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I don't think it would be good to use dating websites, but I believe that as long as you are not currently in a position of authority over say a former student or if there is no chance that you will be in a position of authority in the future, then I feel as if it would be okay to date them that is if you meet someone and you know you're not in a position of authority over them, it would not be breaking any rules.

Mark
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There is no general custom of sexual policing of employees by universities - so long as you do not cross legal boundaries or rules on harassment, your dating life is your own business, as is the electronic means by which you facilitate this. As others have pointed out, the only exception, where otherwise innocent dating or sexual behaviour might violate a university requirement, would be if you have a relationship with a student, especially one you are teaching or supervising (though not necessarily limited to this). This is a subject that your university probably has a specific policy and guidelines on. Since you are obviously well-aware of this danger (and if anything, you are overstating the scope of this limitation), you will be fine.

Ben
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  • Please see Ellen Spertus's comments on einpoklum's answer. A number of universities have instituted blanket bans on professors dating undergraduates. – aeismail May 30 '18 at 04:49
  • Okay, I have edited to give a broader statement. – Ben May 30 '18 at 05:10