3

This is a generalization of this question :: Which is larger? $20!$ or $2^{40}$?.

No explicit general solution was presented there and I'm just curious :D

Thank-you.

Edit :: I want a most-general solution lfor arbitrary $x$ and $y$; not some specfic cases which can then be solved by direct computation. Below, Ahaan-Rungta shows that the case $x < y$ is the one to be considered.

Community
  • 1
Musa Al-hassy
  • 2,152
  • 7
    Since $y!$ does not involve $x$, this question is not well posed. – lhf Dec 16 '13 at 15:42
  • The solution may require some relation between $x$ and $y$ ---as I have no solution, I am unable to `pose' the question in a more suitable fashion. – Musa Al-hassy Dec 18 '13 at 11:42

4 Answers4

8

For a fixed $x,$ $y!$ will eventually be larger, as you can tell by using Stirling's formula.

Igor Rivin
  • 25,994
  • 1
  • 19
  • 40
  • 1
    On the other hand, for a fixed $y$, as $x$ increases, $x^y$ will eventually be larger. It's really not clear from the question whether to keep $x$ fixed and let $y$ increase (as you do), or keep $y$ fixed and let $x$ increase (as I just did), or have them both increase in some way (in which case it matters exactly how they increase). – ShreevatsaR Dec 17 '13 at 07:12
  • 1
    SreevatsaR :: yes; I am not choosing either constraint. I would a most-general solution. Thank-you. – Musa Al-hassy Dec 18 '13 at 11:44
4

Hint:

In general, for positive integer $x,y$ we have:

$y!=y(y-1)(y-2) \cdot\cdot\cdot2\cdot1$

$x^y=xxx\cdot\cdot\cdot xx$

  1. If $x\geq y$; then $ x^y\ge y! $
  2. If $x<y $, ?! (Now this is the question!)

Extra:

If $ \left\lceil{\frac{y}{2}}\right\rceil+1< x<y$; then $x^y\ge y!.$ (easy proof)

Now, we have only the case $ x\le\lceil{\frac{y}{2}}\rceil +1 $

Ahaan S. Rungta
  • 7,706
AHH
  • 504
  • 3
  • 13
3

"Just compute them and compare" is the only fully failsafe method.

In most cases, however, estimating the logarithms of both of $x^y$ and $y!$ using Stirling's formula will yield a conclusive result without needing to compute the two values in high detail.

hmakholm left over Monica
  • 286,031
  • 1
    Makkolm : As usually stated, Stirling's formula contains "big-O" notation that seems to make it useless to answer a specific problem with specific numbers such as the OP's. How can you remedy this? This is not a nitpick, I really want to know how to use Stirling's formula in problems like this. Where/how can one find guaranteed error bounds for the formula? – Stefan Smith Dec 17 '13 at 15:56
  • 1
    @Stefan: The Wikipedia article gives the error bound: $$1 \leq \frac{n!}{\sqrt{2\pi n} \left(\frac{n}{e}\right)^n} \leq \frac{e}{\sqrt{2\pi}} = 1.0844375514...$$ In other words, an absolute error bound for the logarithm of $n!$ is $1-\log \sqrt{2\pi} \approx 0.081$. – hmakholm left over Monica Dec 17 '13 at 16:03
  • thanks, I spent a minute or so scanning the article and I did not see such a bound. – Stefan Smith Dec 17 '13 at 19:10
  • «"Just compute them and compare" is the only fully failsafe method.» Got a proof of that? – Guido Apr 26 '18 at 16:08
1

$$\frac{20!}{2^{40}}= \frac{20!}{4^{20}} = \left(\frac{1}{4}\right)\left(\frac{2}{4}\right)\left(\frac{3}{4}\right) \left(\frac{4}{4}\right)\left(\frac{5}{4}\right)\left(\frac{6}{4}\right)\left(\frac{7}{4}\right)\left(\frac{8}{4}\right)\left(\frac{9}{4}\right)\cdots \left(\frac{20}{4}\right)>\cdots$$

$$ \left(\frac{1}{4}\right)\left(\frac{2}{4}\right)\left(\frac{3}{4}\right) \left(\frac{4}{4}\right)\left(\frac{5}{4}\right)\left(\frac{6}{4}\right)\left(\frac{7}{4}\right)\left(\frac{8}{4}\right)\left(\frac{9}{4}\right)=\frac{9!}{4^9}=\frac{2835}{2048}>1,$$

so $20!>2^{40}$.

Stefan Smith
  • 8,192