I know that if we have $A \implies B$ and $B \implies A$ we can write $A \iff B$, where $B$ and $A$ are logical statements of some sort. An example of this is $x + y =3 \iff x = 3 - y$. However, I would like to ask, what exactly defines $A$ and $B$? Can we make the argument that $x + y = 3$ and $x = 3 - y$ convey the same information and therefore $A = B$? Is it not then usless to write $A \iff A$? Why do we make the distinction with $A$ and $B$? Obviously $x + y =3$ and $x = 3 -y$ are equivalent (hence the $\iff$), but what makes them different enough to call one $A$ and one $B$. Thanks.
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So $A$ and $B$ are "not the same" so we call them different things, but they are equivalent? – Nav Bhatthal Jul 29 '23 at 11:09
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Yes, that is what the relation of "iff" means. They are not the same expressions with the same value, which is why we don't use "=". – Nij Jul 29 '23 at 11:12
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How would you go about writing $A$ = $B$ if they already have $=$ in them? – Nav Bhatthal Jul 29 '23 at 11:13
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Not sure what you are trying to get at. Sure, some implications are easier to demonstrate than others. But things that one person feels follow trivially from the definition, another person might feel worthy of a proper proof. So what? Doesn't make the implication less true. The statement "a given natural number is prime if and only if it is prime" is perfectly true, just not terribly informative. – lulu Jul 29 '23 at 12:03
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I was asking, what is the distinction between $x+y =3$ and $x = 3-y$ to warrant giving each statement a different name ($A$, $B$ respectively), is it really just as simple as having different objects on each side of the $=$ sign? – Nav Bhatthal Jul 29 '23 at 12:35
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I think this is a very interesting question. I don't have a complete answer for you, but you might find this interesting https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/384861/is-mathematics-one-big-tautology. But in essence, the reason you denote the two differently is they are distinct sentences. But A and B can represent the same logical sentence anyway. – masiewpao Jul 29 '23 at 12:51
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Thanks for the feedback! I only just learnt about logical statements and this question popped into mind straightaway, in my country we don't study this until university (I am high school aged) – Nav Bhatthal Jul 29 '23 at 12:55
1 Answers
To understand what A and B are, we have to look at how they are defined in the field of logic. Specifically, we look at the syntax (formal language) of propositional logic, which is the simplest form of logic.
A propositional formula is defined as follows:
- Any propositional atom (p, q, r, etc.) is a propositional formula. Atoms are like variables, that can only get a truth value (true or false).
- $\top$ and $\bot$ are formulas. They represent truth or falsity
- If A is a formula then so is $(\lnot A)$ where $\lnot$ represents "not" i.e. the unary operation of negation
- If A, B are formulas then so are $(A \land B), (A \lor B), (A \rightarrow B), (A \leftrightarrow B)$ where these symbols between A and B are boolean connectives (boolean operations) that represent and, or, implies and if and only if respectively.
- Nothing is a propositional formula unless it's built using these rules
So A and B are actually quite strictly defined. They are propositional formulas which can be constructed only through the above definition.
The elements that make up a formula can of course be extended, to create a language with a different syntax. The immediate extension of propositional logic, called predicate (or first-order) logic adds to the above: structured atomic formulas, quantifiers, variables, equality, and function symbols. Defining first-order logic formulas is a bit more involved so I will refrain from doing it here.
Note the following crucial element of any logical system: Above, I gave the meaning of the symbols $\land, \lor, \lnot, \rightarrow, \leftrightarrow$ in English as and, or etc. That was in fact not necessary. That is because above, so far we have only been dealing with the syntax of propositional logic, that is, how you can mechanically construct formulas using the formal language of the logical system.
The meaning assigned to the symbol comes from the semantics of the logical system. To assign meaning, we look at the evaluation of the propositional formulas in a given situation. You might have seen that done through truth tables. We say that A and B (in the language we just defined that is $A \land B$) is true if A and B are both true, otherwise, it is false.
As an aside, any logical system is usually made up of syntax, semantics as well as a proof theory which is a purely systematic way of identifying and obtaining valid statements in the language. That is, it's a way of arguing in the formal language.
To answer the question in full, we now know what A and B are on either side of a logical connective: formulas. For your specific example, $x + y = 3$ and $x = 3 - y$ contain variables as well as equality, so they are first-order formulas. These are indeed different formulas. However, they are what we call equivalent.
Defining equivalence in first-order logic is once again a bit more involved (uses things called L-structures). But I can give an example in propositional logic whose syntax we defined above. In propositional logic, we say two formulas are logically equivalent if they have the same truth value in any situation. Roughly speaking they mean the same thing. For example, $A \land B$ is equivalent to $B \land A$. Famous equivalences you may have encountered are De Morgan's laws.

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My argument that I came up with was like this "One statement is about the sum of $x$ and $y$ always being $3$, while the other is on the difference of $y$ and $3$ being equal to some variable quantity $x$, I guess they convey the same information, in different ways (and both ways must be either true or false because of the $\iff$. – Nav Bhatthal Jul 29 '23 at 12:57
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I added a paragraph about equivalence, which you might find useful. But long story short, these are indeed different but equivalent formulas. – Dmarks Jul 29 '23 at 13:06
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If we use the term "Identity" that usually means equivalent right? Is this logical equivalence or material? – Nav Bhatthal Jul 29 '23 at 13:09
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That is correct, an identity is an equivalence. I am not sure what you mean by logical equivalence vs material, but it essentially means that the two formulas are true in exactly the same situations. Alternatively, it is thought of as a universally quantified equality. – Dmarks Jul 29 '23 at 13:17
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Let me put it another way. $x + y =3$ and $x = 3 -y$ are equivalent in a "different sort of way" as opposed to $1$ and $sin^2(x) + cos^2(x)$ are. The latter two are numerically equivalent, the former two are materially (truth or false) equivalent. I can say "when $x+y=3$, its true that $x = 3 -y$" but I cannot say, when $1$, $sin^2(x) +cos^2(x)$ – Nav Bhatthal Jul 29 '23 at 13:20
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Well, 1 and $sin^2(x) + cos^2(x)$ are not equivalent because they are not logical formulas, they are however equal. In the first case ($x+y=3$) and ($x=3-y$) are first-order formulas about equality. Ultimately they will be true or false. 1 does not have a truth value. What you can say is that $\forall x. sin^2(x). + cos^2(x) = 1$ is true and therefore the following equivalence holds $(sin^2(x) + cos^2(x) = 1) \equiv \top$. That means you can "say": when $(sin^2(x) + cos^2(x) = 1)$, true. Since the trigonometric identity and truth are true in the same situations (i.e. always). – Dmarks Jul 29 '23 at 13:39
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1I see, thanks for the detailed answer, I think its very possible for people to go through their mathematics education without ever really worrying about all this, but its nice to see that it has rigour behind it. – Nav Bhatthal Jul 29 '23 at 13:43
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There is indeed great mathematical rigour behind logical systems and this barely touches the surface. It's the sort of thing one would encounter in an introduction to logic class at university, but it gives great intuitions about mathematics in general. P.S. If you consider the original question sufficiently answered you can accept the answer to resolve it and earn us both some points, cheers. – Dmarks Jul 29 '23 at 13:56
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1Well at least I have a head start to logic when I go university in 2 years. – Nav Bhatthal Jul 29 '23 at 14:02