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This, I hope, is not a duplicate; I am exercising my critical thinking here and I want to understand what going on, and the available content I have found online on this so far has not helped.

I'm getting conflicting information regarding whether $1=0.\overline{9}$ (i.e., "$0$ point $9$ recurring") holds in nonstandard analysis.

On one hand, we have this comment:

Simply speaking, NSA does not lead to conclusions about $\Bbb R$ that differ from those of standard analysis. Giving alternate definitions of $0.99…$ is not really the concern of most researchers working in NSA: we roll with the usual definition (as in Rudin above), and so $0.999⋯=1$.

This was found here:

Reference request: How is $0.99\cdots$ defined in nonstandard analysis?


On the other hand, we have:

About 0.999... = 1

In that question and its answers, the number

$$0.9_N:=\sum_{i=1}^N 9\cdot 10^{-i} $$

where $N\in{}^*\mathbb{N}\setminus\mathbb{N}$ is an infinite nonstandard natural number

is defined and it is shown that $1-0.9_N$ is a positive infinitesimal number.


Both seem reasonable to me, so what gives?

The Question:

Does $1=0.\overline{9}$ in nonstandard analysis? Does the question make sense; that is, is there an issue of interpretation or something that leads to these two seemingly opposing responses? Please would someone settle the matter with references?

Thoughts:

My best and only guess is that $0.9_N$ is not the standard definition of $0.\overline{9}$. I don't understand how though.

It is my understanding that

$$0.\overline{9}:=\sum_{n=1}^\infty \frac{9}{10^n}.$$


Edit: As explained in this comment of mine below, I suppose the problem is that I don't get why

$$\sum_{n=1}^\infty \frac{9}{10^n}$$

is not implicit in

$$\sum_{i=1}^N 9\cdot 10^{-i} $$

for infinite $N$.

Shaun
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    You wrote "I don't understand how". Is there a book/source you have that defines $0.\overline{9}$ in a way similar to $0.9_N$? If not, then that's how - no one defined them similarly, so there's no reason to expect they're the same. If so, then adding a quote from that source to your post would greatly clarify where your confusion comes from. – Mark S. Jun 03 '23 at 14:58
  • I have added what I believe is the standard definition of $0.\overline{9}$, @MarkS. – Shaun Jun 03 '23 at 15:02
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    You've written two different (but similar) definitions. And I see nowhere in your question or links that anyone has claimed they're the same/both definitions of $0.\overline 9$. So I'm not sure where your question lies. Is there a sentence somewhere in your links that you read as suggesting that the definition of one could be a definition of the other? Is there a question you have about either definition and/or conventions about $0.\overline 9$ not addressed by the other questions on this site? I'm not trying to be difficult, just trying the pinpoint the confusion so I might help. – Mark S. Jun 03 '23 at 15:10
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    I'm not sure, @MarkS., but, like I said, I think that's what the problem is: they're different definitions. But how is $$\sum_{n=1}^\infty \frac{9}{10^n}$$ not implicit by $$\sum_{i=1}^N 9\times 10^{-i}$$ for infinite $N$? – Shaun Jun 03 '23 at 15:17
  • I have made an edit, @MarkS. Please do write an answer, even if someone beats you to it. – Shaun Jun 03 '23 at 15:28
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    My comment (that your question cites) is followed immediately by That said, "simply speaking" is necessarily inaccurate: questions of mathematical culture tend to be subtle rather than from simple. There are many possible alternative semantics for decimal notation that nonstandard analysis can formalize, and some good (social) reasons for adopting them. The reference you are looking for is the article When is .999... less than 1? by K. U. Katz and M. Katz... Have you read the linked article? You should, because I think it thoroughly answers your question. – Z. A. K. Jun 03 '23 at 16:06
  • Yes, I saw that @Z.A.K. I guess it didn't register to me as an answer to my question, but instead as further clarification on the question it is under; I'm sorry. I haven't read the article yet. – Shaun Jun 03 '23 at 16:26
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    I think GEdgar's answer is good, but you also asked for a reference, so I will recommend Rob Goldblatt's Lectures on the Hyperreals, which is very readable. In particular it will give you a good sense of the transfer principle, which is the key notion you seem to be missing. – MJD Jun 03 '23 at 23:15

3 Answers3

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First, $$ \sum_{n=1}^\infty \frac{9}{10^n} = 1 . \tag1$$ Non-standard analysis does not change this (standard) fact.
In a hyperreal field ${}^*\mathbb R$, we see that if $N$ is an infinite natural number, then $$ 1- \sum_{n=1}^N \frac{9}{10^n}\text{ is positive but infinitesimal.} $$ What we do know is: the following are eqivalent: $$ (a)\quad\sum_{n=1}^\infty \frac{9}{10^n} = 1 $$ and $$ (b)\quad\text{for all infinite natural numbers $N$, }\left|1- \sum_{n=1}^N \frac{9}{10^n}\right| \text{ is infinitesimal.} $$


What do we mean by $$ \sum_{n=1}^N \frac{9}{10^n}\qquad? \tag2$$ It seems to be a sum with infinitely many terms, which is nonsense. Here is Robinson's explanation. Take the (standard) function $S : \mathbb N \to \mathbb R$ defined by $$ S(n) = \sum_{n=1}^n \frac{9}{10^n} . $$ There is a corresponding non-standard object, say ${}^*S$ with ${}^*S : {}^*\mathbb N \to {}^*\mathbb R$. (The main usfulness of non-standard analysis is this "transfer principle".) Then $(2)$ is by definition: ${}^*S\; ( N)$.

If we merely have a non-archimedian ordered field $F$, then $(2)$ is undefined. To make $(2)$ meaningful, we require this particular field ${}^*\mathbb R$, with its corresponding transfer principle.

Reference
Robinson, Abraham, Non-standard analysis, Princeton, NJ: Princeton Univ. Press. xix, 293 p. (1996). ZBL0843.26012.

GEdgar
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  • My question is a bit redundant, but I think it's worth stressing/highlighting. I'm somewhat perplexed by the use of "$\infty$" and "$N$" in the top of the summation sign. Am I correct that say that the $\infty$ sign does not represent any value whatsoever (in the hyperreal field) and $$ \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} $$ represents the the limit of partial sums as in the standard definition (that you can find in any standard real analysis book)? And am I correct in thinking that $N$ actually stands for a genuine object of the hyperreal field and $$ \sum_{n=1}^{N} $$ is as defined in your post? – Maximal Ideal Jun 05 '23 at 00:54
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    @MaximalIdeal , as sort of explored in my answer, there's not just one thing that $\infty$ means, in the sense that the definition found in any standard analysis book is equivalent to a definition in terms of all genuine objects that are "infinite nonstandard naturals" in a hyperreal field. – Mark S. Jun 05 '23 at 01:34
  • @MarkS. Ok, I appreciate the comprehensive post. – Maximal Ideal Jun 05 '23 at 06:28
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Setup

Aside

Aside: This isn't relevant to the main thrust of your question, but I wanted to note that there are many different equivalent definitions of $0.\overline{9}$, depending on how exactly the real numbers are set up. For instance, in some texts that expression would not be defined as a summation of any kind, but rather would signify something like "the unique real number in all of the intervals $\left[0,1\right]$, $\left[0.9,1\right]$, $\left[0.99,1\right]$, ...".

For the rest of this answer, I will assume the summation definitions $0.\overline{9}={\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^{\infty}}\dfrac{9}{10^{n}}$ and $0.9_{N}={\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^{N}}\dfrac{9}{10^{n}}$ where $N\in{}^*\mathbb{N}\setminus\mathbb{N}$ is an infinite nonstandard natural number.

Approach

I will be splitting this answer into three levels requiring the reader to be comfortable with more "advanced" mathematics for each level, but it is hard to target every person's mathematical background, so please comment if some detail should be added somewhere.


Pre-calculus

$0.\overline{9}$ means the real number that $0.9$, $0.9+0.09=0.99$, $0.9+0.09+0.009=0.999$ are getting closer to. As discussed in many other places on the internet, including the English Wikipedia article for 0.999..., the number it's getting closer to is $1$.

However, in some branches of mathematics, there are ways to imagine/define new "numbers" that are not real numbers, which nonetheless can be compared to real numbers. "Numbers" like $0.9_{N}$ are less than $1$, but closer to it than any real number less than $1$ could be.


Calculus

A definition of $0.\overline{9}$

In an expression like ${\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^{\infty}}\dfrac{9}{10^{n}}$, the $\infty$ symbol on the summation sign is a shorthand for evaluating a certain limit. Specifically, we evaluate the limit of the sequence of finite partial sums: ${\displaystyle \lim_{m\to\infty}}\left({\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^{m}}\dfrac{9}{10^{n}}\right)$. And here, this $\infty$ symbol means something that can be explained using only everyday real numbers, which are always finite. Specifically, this limit is a number $L$ so that for every error tolerance $\varepsilon>0$, we can choose a natural number $M$ big enough so that if $m\ge M$, the finite sum is "$\varepsilon$-close to $L$" - i.e. that $\left|{\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^{m}}\dfrac{9}{10^{n}}-L\right|<\varepsilon$.

We know from our experience with geometric series that the limit $L$ should be $\dfrac{9/10}{1-(1/10)}=1$ in this case. And this works out with the $\varepsilon$ definition. For example, if $\varepsilon=0.003$, then we can choose $M=3$ since $\left|{\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^{3}}\dfrac{9}{10^{n}}-1\right|=\left|0.999-1\right|=0.001<0.003=\varepsilon$ and $\left|{\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^{4}}\dfrac{9}{10^{n}}-1\right|=\left|0.9999-1\right|=0.0001<0.003=\varepsilon$, etc. (In fact, we can handle any $\varepsilon$ by taking $M$ to be the ceiling of $\log_{10}\dfrac{1}{\varepsilon}$.)

I emphasize again that the above discussion did not involve any infinite numbers, just a symbol $\infty$ which was a directive to do certain work with finite inequalities.

The idea of $0.9_{M}$

Without getting into the weeds of details, there are ways to add on new "numbers" to the naturals and to the reals which get the name "nonstandard". For instance, there could be an infinitesimal "number" $c$ that's smaller than all of $0.1$, $0.01$, $0.001$, ..., but still greater than $0$ (no real number is like that). It turns out that some numbers like $1-c$ where $c$ is a certain kind of infinitesimal might be deserving of a name and symbols that evoke a similar idea to the summation of $0.0\ldots09$s we did earlier. But those are different "numbers" than $1$, the only real number close to those finite sums.

Just like summation had a special unintuitive meaning when the symbol on top was $\infty$, it has a different special unintuitive meaning when the symbol on top is "an infinite nonstandard natural number", whatever that is. The precise meaning of ${\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^{N}}\dfrac{9}{10^{n}}$ is not only different than ${\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^{\infty}}\dfrac{9}{10^{n}}$, but also depends on which system of nonstandard numbers we're working with, and which "infinite nonstandard natural" number $N$ is within that system.

You can learn about this on an informal level in Keisler's free textbook Elementary Calculus: An Infinitesimal Approach.


Analysis

To really compare these two expressions, one of which only makes sense in a context of non-standard analysis, it's best to view each of them through that same lens. This will take a bit of development/statements of basic facts about non-standard analysis, but I'll try to thread the needle in only being detailed enough to address the original question, rather than write a proper development of nonstandard analysis.

Hyperreals

Probably the most hands-on approach to constructing "nonstandard" numbers is to create Robinson's Hyperreals via an ultrapower construction.

Quoting my other answers about hyperreals here:

For those unfamiliar, the basic idea behind of the construction isn't too complicated. I like Terry Tao's voting analogy. A hyperreal is a sequence of reals (well, an equivalence class of sequences) that vote each time you ask about a property (like "are you bigger than $5$?" ). How to determine which infinite collections of voters count as good majorities is handled by some technical stuff, but you don't have to worry about that to get the idea.

One important property (which would require more details to make precise and prove) is that essentially any functions/operations that you can apply to reals (or a relevant subset, like the naturals), can be applied to these hyperreals: just do everything entry by entry (for any representative of the equivalence class). For example, $x=\left[\left(1,2,3,\ldots\right)\right]$ is an "infinite nonstandard natural" (since a majority of the entries would agree that it's greater than $17$, etc.). And if you want to square it, just square each entry to get $x^{2}=\left[\left(1,4,9,\ldots\right)\right]$. Since $4>2$, $9>3$, etc., we have $x^{2}>x$.

Another key property is that if a hyperreal is finite (a majority of the entries are bounded between two finite reals), then there is a closest real number to it. This is sometimes called the "standard part" or the "shadow" of the original hyperreal.

What is $0.9_{N}$?

In order to interpret something like "$0.9_{N}={\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^{N}}\dfrac{9}{10^{n}}$ where $N\in{}^*\mathbb{N}\setminus\mathbb{N}$ is an infinite nonstandard natural number.", we need to define finite summations, and use that to understand what this should mean. For instance, there is a finite sum function $f:\mathbb{N}\to\mathbb{R}$ given by $f\left(m\right)={\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^{m}}\dfrac{9}{10^{n}}$. And an infinite nonstandard natural is like a sequence where all (or at least a "majority") of the entries are naturals, and that no majority of the entries are bounded. $x$ and $x^{2}$ from the previous paragraph are examples of these. So given $N=x^{2}=\left[\left(1,4,9,\ldots\right)\right]$, we can define the sum $0.9_{N}={\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^{N}}\dfrac{9}{10^{n}}$ to be $f\left(N\right)$, which is $\left[\left(0.9,0.9999,0.999\,999\,999,\ldots\right)\right]$. If we instead had $N=x=\left[\left(1,2,3,\ldots\right)\right]$, then $f\left(N\right)$ would be $\left[\left(0.9,0.99,0.999,\ldots\right)\right]$, which is a smaller number, since $0.99<0.9999$ and $0.999<0.999\,999\,999$, etc. But all of these possibilities for various values of $N$ are still less than $1=\left[\left(1,1,1,\ldots\right)\right]$, since $0.9\ldots9<1$ for any finite amount of $9$s you put there. For this reason, something like $0.9_{N}$ is different from $1$.

Limits via Hyperreals

A reason to develop something like the hyperreals is that they give you a way to develop calculus/analysis that more closely resembles intuition about infinitesimal quantities held by Fermat and Leibniz. There are translations of definitions of limits, derivatives, integrals, etc. into discussions of infinite/infinitesimal hyperreals.

For our purposes, we just need to worry about the limit of a sequence. If $\left(a_{1},a_{2},\ldots\right)$ is a sequence, then the function $a\left(m\right)=a_{m}$ is a function on the positive integers, which we could apply to infinite nonstandard naturals like $x$ or $x^{2}$. If the closest real number to $a\left(N\right)$ is $L$ no matter what infinite nonstandard natural we pick, then we say that ${\displaystyle \lim_{n\to\infty}}a_{n}=L$. It turns out that this agrees with the $\varepsilon$ definition discussed earlier.

This means that ${\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^{\infty}}\dfrac{9}{10^{n}}={\displaystyle \lim_{m\to\infty}}{\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^{m}}\dfrac{9}{10^{n}}$ is basically saying "what is the closest real to any of the possibilities for $0.9_{N}$?". And the answer to that is just $1=0.\overline{9}$.

Conclusion

$0.9_{N}$ is some weird hyperreal/nonstandard real which is infinitesimally close to $1$, leveraging that $N$ is a particular infinite quantity. But the use of the $\infty$ symbol means that we are no longer working with a particular infinite quantity, just asking which everyday real number all of those $0.9_{N}$s are close to, which is $1$.

"Infinite $N$"

This question hinged on "$\infty$" and "infinite $N$" both pointing to a concept of infinity, and the distinction between them. There are actually very many different concepts of infinity, and it can be challenging and rewarding to keep the distinctions and connections straight. You can read summaries of them in my answer to the MathSE question Understanding infinity.

Mark S.
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Once you define $0.999\ldots$ as "$0$ point $9$ recurring" there is no ambiguity and one must conclude that it equals $1$ (in this case there is no final $9$). The definition in terms of "$0$, point, followed by an infinite string of $9$s" is more ambiguous and enables an interpretation according to which the number of $9$s is an infinite (more precisely, unlimited) integer $H$ in the sense of nonstandard analysis (in this case there is a final $9$). Such a number will have standard part $1$, but will fall short of $1$ by an infinitesimal amount. It seems to me that the (many) students who believe that $0.999\ldots<1$ usually have some intuitive naive version of the latter interpretation in mind. The traditional approaches to the calculus do not possess a sufficiently rich language to formalize such student intuitions.

Mikhail Katz
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  • Wow! Thank you. I'm surprised there's such a thing as a "final $9$" in such a case! That's really interesting. Where can I find out more? – Shaun Jun 07 '23 at 10:39
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    There are two approaches to nonstandard analysis: (1) the model-theoretic approach along the lines of Robison's original approach, and (2) axiomatic approaches. The advantage of the latter is that it can be effective. There is a fairly elementary explanation of this in the recent article in Real Analysis Exchange; see https://arxiv.org/abs/2305.09672 – Mikhail Katz Jun 07 '23 at 11:06