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I am a student learning rates of change. Why is it always that people use the $\,dy/\,dx$ to represent a rate of change and not the definition of the slope which is $\Delta y/ \Delta x$

I think using $\,dy/\,dx$ is kind of like a cheat to use calculus and chain rules to solve those questions. But it doesn't make any difference when we want to represent the same rate as $\Delta y/ \Delta x$. As they both are ratios, there really should not be any problem when it comes to using the standard slope equation.

For example in a problem, the side of a square is increasing at the rate of $4$ meters per second. Now, if we were to represent this in the form $\,dy/\,dx$, we can manipulate this in many ways. But if we do use $\Delta y/ \Delta x$ we cannot. So is the reason we use $\,dy/\,dx$ is just so that we can exploit calculus rules or is there some other reason?

PNT
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  • There are a few things: 1. $\dfrac{dy}{dx}$ is not a ratio. $\dfrac{d}{dx}$ is an operator which acts on $y$. On the other hand, $\dfrac{\Delta y}{\Delta x}$ is a ratio, and as you say, represents the "slope". 2. The ratio $\dfrac{\Delta y}{\Delta x}$ is a very crude estimate for the rate of change. If you want, you can draw a curve (perhaps a parabola). Fix a point $\left( x, y \right)$ on it, and for different points $\left( x', y' \right)$ on the parabola, try finding the ratio $\dfrac{\Delta y}{\Delta x}$. Then, if you are aware of calculus, use it and compare the results. – Aniruddha Deshmukh Jun 26 '21 at 11:49
  • Continuing my previous comment, I would rather suggest you choose a sequence of points $\left( x_n, y_n \right)$ on the curve which you draw in such a manner that as you increase your $n$, the points come closer and closer to the point $\left( x, y \right)$ on the curve which you have already fixed. Perhaps, then you will get to know $\dfrac{dy}{dx}$ more closely. Also, I suggest you draw as many figures as you can. – Aniruddha Deshmukh Jun 26 '21 at 11:50
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    No question is a noob question. You're a beginner and are not expected to be perfect; you may have confusions and misunderstandings, all you need to do is that you keep learning from your mistakes. – ultralegend5385 Jun 26 '21 at 12:13
  • "For example in a problem, the side of a square is increasing at the rate of 4 meters per second. Now, if we were to represent this in the form dy/dx, we can manipulate this in many ways. But if we do use Δy/Δx we cannot. So is the reason we use dy/dx is just so that we can exploit calculus rules or is there some other reason?"

    So, exactly what is calculus for you? And why do you think is the significance of it's rules?

    – tryst with freedom Jun 26 '21 at 12:48
  • There's another strong reason....we're lazy and and it's easier to write/type a $d$ rather then a $\Delta$ :) – Alan Jun 26 '21 at 21:57

3 Answers3

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As others have elaborated, $\frac{dy}{dx}$ is not a ratio, but a rate, and $\frac{dy}{dx}$ is the limit of $\frac{\Delta y}{\Delta x} = \frac{f(x+t) - f(x)}{x - t}$ as $t$ approaches 0. This is a very good foundation to build, but personally I didn't fully understand this definition until I had a few math classes above Calculus under my belt. So I'd like to present a less rigorous but hopefully more intuitive argument.

$\frac{\Delta y}{\Delta x}$ is a generally a specific value for some pair of $x$'s(or $y$'s). For example, what is the difference in $y$ from $x =0$ to $x=1$ for some function? Let's look at four function

$$y = black(x) = x$$ $$y = red(x) = x^2$$ $$y = green(x) = \sqrt{x}$$ $$y = blue(x) = \sin(x * \frac{\pi}{2})$$

If we look from 0 to 1, each of these has $\frac{\Delta y}{\Delta x} = \frac{y(1) - y(0)}{1 - 0} = 1$. However, if we plot each of these we see that each of them are very different functions, even from 0 to 1.

enter image description here

While the ratio of change in $y$ vs change in $x$ is useful, it does not provide a complete picture of the rate of change of a function. The derivative allows us to define the rate of change in general, and also at any particular point $x$ for some function of $x$. This is of considerable importance among a variety of fields as your functions become more and more complex.

  • yes but i dont understand the reason why we represent the rates as dy/dx as dy/dx is associated with the instantaneous rate of change. If we want to find just the rate of change but not an a particular instant, should'nt the delta y/delta x definition be fine?? – AdityaBisht07 Jun 27 '21 at 06:05
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The thing is, $\newcommand{\dydx}{\dfrac{\textrm dy}{\textrm dx}}\dydx$ is not just a ratio of two quantities $\textrm dy$ and $\textrm dx$, it essentially describes how the variable $y$ changes with $x$.

This is one of the misconceptions beginners in calculus often have. $\dydx$ is, in no way a ratio; it beautifully converts your average rate $\dfrac{\Delta y}{\Delta x}$ into a rate which can be used to find the exact magnitude of rate at any $x$ you want.

You can observe it geometrically as well. For any arbitrary continuous graph, take two points on it and join them. The slope of the line that you get is your average rate between the two points. What the derivative does is describe the slope when these two points come closer and closer, close than any real number.

The average rate over an interval describes the overall rate, so you cannot know the rate at some point between the interval. But with instantaneous rate, you describe that at every point and can even take the average of the rates at endpoints to get your average rate back! For example, consider $y=x^2$. Let's calculate the average rate between $a$ and $a+3$. $$r_{\text{avg}}=\dfrac{(a+3)^2-a^2}{a+3-a}=2a+3$$ Now, we don't know here, what the rate is at $x=a+1$. But with derivatives, we have $$\dydx=2x$$ And thus we know the rate at $a+1$, i.e. $$r_{x=a+1}=2a+2$$ And between $a$ and $a+3$ is $$r_{a\text{ to }a+3}=\dfrac{1}{2}\Bigg(\left(\dydx\right)_{x=a+3}+\left(\dydx\right)_{x=a}\Bigg)$$ $$=\dfrac12\Big(2(a+3)+2a\Big)=2a+3$$ as expected.

Hope this helps. Ask anything if not clear :)

  • It's actually legit to think $\frac{dy}{dx}$ as a ratio, there are formulations of calculus which allows for this and also to add, it does give all the right results in single variable calculus – tryst with freedom Jun 26 '21 at 12:42
  • if dy/dx isnt a ratio then why do we represent rates as dy/dx? – AdityaBisht07 Jun 26 '21 at 12:55
  • @Buraian: It does allow, but as you have said, it is only true for single variable calculus. For multivariable calculus, it will just create misunderstandings. – ultralegend5385 Jun 26 '21 at 13:07
  • Wait till you hear about differential forms :P – tryst with freedom Jun 26 '21 at 13:07
  • @AdityaBisht07 I like to think of it the same way Aniruddha said, think of it something as an 'operator' which eats a function which gives you another function. $ \frac{d}{dx} x^2 = 2x$

    You see under the action, you get another funciton

    – tryst with freedom Jun 26 '21 at 13:08
  • @AdityaBisht07: It's just due to the notation, there are other notations e.g. $\textbf D_x(y)$, $y'$, $f'(x)$, etc. This notation makes sense only in single variable calculus, as it makes rules look trivial e.g. the chain rule $$\dfrac{\textrm dy}{\textrm dx}=\dfrac{\textrm dy}{\textrm du}\cdot\dfrac{\textrm du}{\textrm dx}$$Yes, you can treat it as an operator which can be applied on a function and return another function. – ultralegend5385 Jun 26 '21 at 13:10
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    @AdityaBisht07 the derivative is sometimes represented by a ratio $\frac{dy}{dx}$ (in part) because it often can be manipulated as if it is one, but fundamentally it isn't. And something acting like a ratio and actually being a ratio are significantly different things, at least from a theoretical point of view. And the theoretical point of view is absolutely essential if you hope to have a good understanding of calculus, or mathematics in general for that matter. – SeraPhim Jun 26 '21 at 13:56
  • yes but i still do not get the idea of using dy/dx as a rate. As dy/dx specifies the instantaneous rate of change, what does it mean that 4 meters per second is an instantaneous rate? – AdityaBisht07 Jun 27 '21 at 11:24
  • @AdityaBisht07: Have you read my illustration? – ultralegend5385 Jun 27 '21 at 14:23
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Suppose that $y=f(x)$ is the graph of a function $f$ that can be differentiated. If you pick two points $(x,f(x))$ and $(x+\Delta x,f(x+\Delta x))$ that lie on the curve, then the quotient $$ \frac{\Delta y}{\Delta x}=\frac{f(x+\Delta x)-f(x)}{\Delta x} $$ represents the average rate of change between two points. On the other hand, $\frac{dy}{dx}$ is defined as $$ \frac{dy}{dx}=\lim_{\Delta x \to 0}\frac{\Delta y}{\Delta x}=\lim_{h \to 0}\frac{f(x+h)-f(x)}{h} \, , $$ and it represents the instantaneous rate of change. From this definition, it should be clear that $\frac{dy}{dx}$ is not a ratio—rather, it is the limit of the ratio $\frac{\Delta y}{\Delta x}$ as $\Delta x \to 0$. It's true that $\frac{dy}{dx}$ sometimes behaves as if it were a ratio, for instance in the case of the chain rule, but that doesn't mean that it is one. See this question for more details.

Joe
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    Could the downvoters please explain what is wrong with my post? – Joe Jun 26 '21 at 13:13
  • (+1) Exactly! This post is indeed nice, answers the OP's question, has MathJax, and is well written. (Side note: There's an extra , under the definition of derivative.) – ultralegend5385 Jun 26 '21 at 15:34
  • @ultralegend5385: Thank you. In fact, the comma was intentional because I like to use punctuation even in displayed equations because I still regard those equations as forming part of a sentence. Discussion of whether this is good style can be found here. – Joe Jun 26 '21 at 15:46
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    Thanks for that thread! – ultralegend5385 Jun 26 '21 at 15:53