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In the second chapter of the book by R.P.Burn, titled: Groups: A path to geometry, it is given in q. 16 ( scanned image of question: https://i.stack.imgur.com/vtg24.jpg , scanned image of answer: https://i.stack.imgur.com/7iIxj.jpg ) to show that given a group $S_n, n \in \mathbb{N}$, and an arbitrary permutation $\alpha \in S_n$; the cycles formed by the sequence $1, \alpha, \alpha^2, \alpha^3, \alpha^4, \cdots$, are either identical or disjoint.

The approach taken by the question is to assume two non-disjoint sequences:
(i) $A : \ a, a\alpha, a\alpha^2, a\alpha^3, a\alpha^4, \cdots$,
(ii) $B : \ b, b\alpha, b\alpha^2, b\alpha^3, b\alpha^4, \cdots$,

such that $a\alpha^i = b\alpha^j$.
The book states to show:
(i) If $i\ge j$, identify second sequence with in the first.

(ii) Also, as the two sequences are non-disjoint, so identify first sequence with in the second.


Issue:

  1. The assumption of two non-disjoint sequences $A, B$ with different indexes $i, \ j$ is confusing. I feel at most a contradiction can be used to show that $i=j$.

  2. Unable to grasp the two liner answer stated:
    If $a\alpha^i = b\alpha^j$, then $a\alpha^{i -j} = b$ and $a\alpha^{i -j+k} = b\alpha^k$. If $a\alpha^m = a$, then $b\alpha^{j-i+m} = a$.

jiten
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1 Answers1

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Since they are not disjoint, we know that we can find $i$ and $j$ such taht

$$a\alpha^i = b \alpha^j$$ We can assume $i \ge j$, suppose not, swap the role of $A$ and $B$.

First thing that we want to check, does $b$ appear in $A$?

Answer is yes, since we can write $a\alpha^{i-j} = b$ and we can see that $i-j \ge 0$, hence $b$ is an element in $B$ and hence all subsequent terms in $B$ appears in $A$ as well since $b \alpha^k$ can be writtean as $a\alpha^{i-j+k}$.

We assume that the cycles in $A$ is of length $m$. We can write $a\alpha^m = a$.

Does $a$ appear in $B$?

Answer is yes again since $a = b\alpha^{j-i}=b\alpha^{j-i+m}=b\alpha^{j-i+rm}$ where we can pick $r$ to be large enough such that $j-i+rm \ge 0$.

Siong Thye Goh
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  • Thanks, but still request an alternative approach to prove that the cycles formed by the sequence $1, \alpha, \alpha^2,⋯, $ are either identical or disjoint. The book's approach seems not well enough to me. But fear that would be possible only after involvement of abstract algebra, so might not be a correct alternative. – jiten Sep 26 '20 at 00:48
  • I am confused. Are you asking for question $15$ or question $16$? – Siong Thye Goh Sep 26 '20 at 07:11
  • Regarding the question at : https://math.stackexchange.com/q/1822068/424260, that finds non consecutive number's permutations request help. Unable to grasp even after too much attempt, also no other way to discuss a previous solution on another site. Have created a chat room here: https://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/113725/oct-20. Please visit there or comment here. – jiten Oct 04 '20 at 19:24
  • Please help, as no way this question can be asked on mse or elsewhere. Idea given in question is too confusing. – jiten Oct 04 '20 at 19:35
  • My max level with inclusion-exclusion approach is in my post at: https://math.stackexchange.com/q/2945020/424260. Here, too much help was there from you. But, this seems too different. – jiten Oct 04 '20 at 19:54
  • Please help with my post at: https://math.stackexchange.com/q/3858063/424260. It concerns with finding a common approach to two similar questions on finding sequences generated by a coin's throws, but with different solution approaches. For my last question, am working and will ask when thoroughly worked, yet stuck. – jiten Oct 09 '20 at 14:58
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    it's beyond me. – Siong Thye Goh Oct 10 '20 at 02:44
  • yup, it is beyond me, also avoid long comment threads. – Siong Thye Goh Oct 10 '20 at 05:40
  • Please vet my answer at: https://math.stackexchange.com/a/3874130/424260. I rarely make an answer, and it is a tough question for me to answer. So, please help. – jiten Oct 20 '20 at 19:48
  • Please check why my comment at: https://math.stackexchange.com/a/1333049/424260. – jiten Nov 29 '20 at 02:19
  • Please vet my answer at : https://math.stackexchange.com/a/3932334/424260. It is about a post proving that if left and right cancellation are not possible, then it is not a group. – jiten Dec 03 '20 at 06:17
  • Please check why my comment at: https://math.stackexchange.com/a/3425061/424260 . It is very important as plan a post on finding a generalization of the post (in terms of the 'exclusion' terms), by taking for given $12$ vertices' case for $6,7$ distinct edges. I fear that none of the answers or the comment by @DanielMathias is correct. I cannot post my query till am sure about the correct answer for the given post. If you allow, can chat too. – jiten Dec 05 '20 at 09:36
  • I am incredibly bad with such questions, it's beyond me. – Siong Thye Goh Dec 05 '20 at 13:16
  • Please tell me how to set up simulation for such problem, as @DanielMathias has stated in his first comment. He states that it helps to find upper limit of the problem. It would be helpful to many, as well as help in generalizing by confirming solution approach by giving broad hints to correct approach. – jiten Dec 06 '20 at 01:29
  • Please see my post at : https://math.stackexchange.com/q/3936707/424260 – jiten Dec 06 '20 at 05:56
  • Please help me in understanding the answer of the post at: https://math.stackexchange.com/a/2357626/424260. It concerns multisets (combinations with repetitions). I have stated my doubt there. It seems a very important question. – jiten Dec 09 '20 at 01:57
  • I am hoping the rest can help you. I am too weak in combinatorics. – Siong Thye Goh Dec 09 '20 at 07:26
  • I request help in elaborating (by a new answer, or chat) the answer at: https://math.stackexchange.com/a/30643/424260. It is about a linear diophantine equation in four variables. Please help. – jiten Jan 25 '21 at 10:18
  • Thanks for answering my comment. But, I requested elaboration of answer at : https://math.stackexchange.com/a/30643/424260. It is not easy to ask anywhere else, if know nothing. – jiten Jan 27 '21 at 02:38
  • Please take some time for me. I will be highly grateful for addressing my last two comments. Many like me must be stuck. – jiten Feb 01 '21 at 03:55
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    i m very overwhelmed by work lately...haven't gotten the time to give any thought. – Siong Thye Goh Feb 01 '21 at 04:58
  • Please join at chatroom https://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/119387/confusion, for doubts in above post (https://math.stackexchange.com/a/30643/424260). – jiten Feb 05 '21 at 18:16
  • Urgent request to provide response to my list at : https://stackoverflow.com/questions/66181683/unable-to-understand-none-output-of-recursive-calls. I posted after great fear after a year or so, and now the account at SO is blocked. Very penalizing. Please upvote, if possible to make me out of Block. I don't know why there is no response of any sort either. – jiten Feb 13 '21 at 04:07
  • Thanks a lot. But still am banned as no more can ask from this account. Might be an upvote helps. Else, have to have a different account to ask in SO. – jiten Feb 13 '21 at 04:22
  • Thanks a lot. Your upvote at my 'other'(earlier) question at SO removed the block on asking new questions from this account. – jiten Feb 13 '21 at 04:40
  • Please provide answer that at least shows elaboration of the approach by the two (selected one, and the one by: Bill Dubuque) responses of the post regarding uniqueness of balanced ternary, at: https://math.stackexchange.com/q/1091962/424260. Would also request (if possible) one for answer by: Vladimir Louis, at: https://math.stackexchange.com/a/1115947/424260. – jiten Feb 16 '21 at 08:01