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On p261 in §1. Logical Systems in XIII. Lindstrom's Theorems in Ebbinghaus' Mathematical Logic,

1.1 Definition. A logical system $\mathcal{L}$ consists of a function $L$ and a binary relation $\models_\mathcal{L}$. $L$ associates with every symbol set $S$ a set $L(S)$, the set of $S$-sentences of $\mathcal{L}$. (...)

  • $L(S)$ is called "the set of $S$-sentences". Does it mean that $L(S)$ only consists of $S$-formulas without free variables? If yes, why can the languages of the first and second order logic systems have $S$-formulas with free variables.

  • Do all the logical systems have the same set of structures, i.e. $\cup_S \{S\text{-structure}\}$?

  • Is it more accurate to say that a logical system $\mathcal{L}$ consists of $L$, $\cup_S \{S\text{-structure}\}$, and $\models_\mathcal{L}$, even though $\cup_S \{S\text{-structure}\}$ is the same for all the logical systems?

  • Is it possible for two logical systems $\mathcal{L_1}$ and $\mathcal{L_2}$ with $L_1 = L_2 $ but $\models_\mathcal{L_1} \neq \models_\mathcal{L_2}$?

Thanks.

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Tim
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  • The author says that he is interested primarily into the "semantic aspects"; thus, he consider sentences because they have a defined meaning (in every interpretation). – Mauro ALLEGRANZA Aug 25 '20 at 15:48
  • Do formulas with free variables not have a defined meaning in every interpretation? – Tim Aug 25 '20 at 15:50
  • The meaning depends on the assignment function $\beta$ (see page 30). Consider the domain $\mathbb N$ and the formula $(x=0)$. With $beta(x)=0$ the formula is T while with $\beta'(x)=1$ is F. – Mauro ALLEGRANZA Aug 25 '20 at 15:54
  • L's Th is model-theoretic, and model theory is usually concerned with sentences. Formulas are more common in Proof theory. – Mauro ALLEGRANZA Aug 25 '20 at 16:05
  • @MauroALLEGRANZA We don't actually use the ability to talk about formulas in this approach - see the first part of my answer. – Noah Schweber Aug 25 '20 at 17:04

1 Answers1

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Re: $(1)$, the idea is that we're boiling down the idea of a logical system to a very simple level: its ability to carve out particular classes of structures, namely those of the form $\{\mathcal{M}: \mathcal{M}\models\varphi\}$ for $\varphi$ a sentence in the system. While "natural" logics like FOL or SOL have more structure than this - e.g. they also have notions of formulas with free variables - we "forget" this structure in the above approach; it's additional but unnecessary.

That said, it turns out that we can still talk about definable subsets of structures just using sentences (and so still accomplish everything which is normally done with formulas with free variables)! Specifically, we can think of $S$-formulas as sentences expansions of $S$ by finitely many new constant symbols.

This lets us talk about definable subsets of structures as follows. Looking at FOL for concreteness, suppose $\mathcal{M}$ is an $S$-structure and $\varphi(x)$ is an $S$-formula with free variable $x$. Let $c$ be a constant symbol not in $S$ and consider the FOL sentence $\hat{\varphi}$ gotten by replacing each free instance of $x$ in $\varphi$ by $c$. Then the subset of $\mathcal{M}$ defined by $\varphi$, that is $\varphi^\mathcal{M}$, is exactly the set of $a\in\mathcal{M}$ such that the expansion of $\mathcal{M}$ to $S\cup\{c\}$ gotten by interpreting $c$ as $a$ satisfies $\hat{\varphi}$.

So this "sentences-only" approach doesn't really lose the ability to talk about free variables, it just makes it a bit messier. What is lost is the structure of the syntax: e.g. in a precise sense FOL has computable syntax, but the approach to logical systems above forgets this. For this reason we're often interested in richer notions of "logical system" (see e.g. here); that said, this very bare-bones notion has value in that it lets us prove nontrivial highly general results.


Re: $(2)$, yes. That said, we can consider "generalized logical systems" which have different notions of structure (e.g. maybe we want to consider structures with a topology - see e.g. here, and more generally that whole book is quite interesting).

Re: $(3)$, since that extra information is redundant, your expression isn't more accurate unless we're working in a broader context. That said, it doesn't hurt to include it, and per the above sometimes we'll want to.


Re: $(4)$, certainly. For a simple example, given a logical system $\mathcal{L}=(L,\models_\mathcal{L})$ consider the logical system $$\mathcal{L}'=(L, \{\langle \mathcal{M},\varphi\rangle: \mathcal{M}\not\models_\mathcal{L}\varphi\}).$$ This just negates everything in $\mathcal{L}$. Of course the two logics are equivalent in an appropriate sense.

A more natural example, which is actually important, is second-order logic with the standard semantics vs. second-order logic with the Henkin semantics: they have the same syntax but their satisfaction relations are extremely different (e.g. the latter is compact but the former isn't).

Ebbinghaus/Flum/Thomas also gives a pathological example later on, of a sort of "twisted" FOL, which has the same syntax as FOL and has the compactness and downwards Lowenheim-Skolem properties but is incomparable with FOL. I don't recall its precise definition, though.

Noah Schweber
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  • Thanks. (1) Did you forget something at "e.g. maybe we want to consider structures with a topology - see e.g. here"? (2) what other definitions of "logical system" do you know? Preferably in books. – Tim Aug 25 '20 at 17:08
  • @Tim Re: (1), yes - I just added the link. Re: (2), I think the book "Model-theoretic logics" (to a chapter of which the previously-mentioned link points) has a few, although they may not use the term "logical system" specifically. Most of them amount to adding additional structure to the definition in the OP. Since there really isn't a single "right" notion, papers on "logical systems" will give an explicit definition (possibly via bibliography-chasing), so I wouldn't worry about it too much; if you pick a definition and master it (e.g. the OP) you'll quickly be able to switch between others. – Noah Schweber Aug 25 '20 at 17:10
  • (1) Is it accurate to say that a logical system $\mathcal{L}$ is defined solely by a relation $\models_\mathcal{L}$? (because two logical systems may have the same language and $\models_\mathcal{L}$ already implies which language it is defined on). (2) Is it correct that a logical system isn't required to have a formal derivable relation $\vdash$? – Tim Aug 25 '20 at 21:37
  • @Tim Re: $(1)$, no, $\models_\mathcal{L}$ does not quite determine $L$ (at least if we construe it as simply a class of ordered pairs). It does however determine $L$ "up to extra $\perp$s:" two logics with the same $\models$-relation have the same sets of satisfiable sentences, they just differ (if at all) in their unsatisfiable sentences (the point being that such sentences don't appear at all in $\models_\mathcal{L}$). Re: $(2)$, that's correct. – Noah Schweber Aug 25 '20 at 21:46
  • (1) in set theory, when a relation is defined, is the underlying product space not specified? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finitary_relation seems to say it is). A relation is just a subset of a product space, or is a predicate on the product space? Are you saying that two different logical systems can have the same $\models_\mathcal{L}$ but different languages? – Tim Aug 25 '20 at 21:56
  • @Tim Yes, that's what I'm saying - typically in set theory a relation is just a set of ordered tuples. – Noah Schweber Aug 25 '20 at 22:39
  • (1) Is a formal logical system defined as a formal language and a set of inference rules, without semantics (i.e. any structure or interpretation)? (2) Given a logical system $\mathcal{L}$ and $S$, $\mathcal{L}(S)$ (i.e. $(L(S), \models_\mathcal{L}(S))$ may or might not correspond to a formal logical system? – Tim Aug 26 '20 at 02:17
  • @Tim "Is a formal logical system defined as" I haven't seen that specific term used before, so I have no idea how it's defined. Do you have a source where it appears (in a non-purely-informal manner)? – Noah Schweber Aug 27 '20 at 18:08
  • No, I don't. But I can give you an example: the formal part of a first order logic system. – Tim Aug 27 '20 at 18:13
  • @Tim What do you mean by "formal part?" – Noah Schweber Aug 27 '20 at 18:13
  • The part after removing the semantic part ($\models$). I have answered you in the newer post: (a formal language, a relation induced by a deductive system or any equivalence) – Tim Aug 27 '20 at 18:14
  • @Tim All that's left after removing $\models$ is the set of sentences. Surely you want some relation between them, of some sort? – Noah Schweber Aug 27 '20 at 18:16
  • Is it correct that the derivable relation induced from a deductive system doesn't provide meaning to the formulas, so is formal? – Tim Aug 27 '20 at 18:21
  • @Tim "Is it correct that the derivable relation induced from a deductive system doesn't provide meaning to the formulas" Yes, basically it only describes how the sentences of the deductive system relate to each other, it says nothing about what they mean. "so is formal" I still don't really understand what you mean by "formal" in this context, so ... maybe? – Noah Schweber Aug 27 '20 at 18:23
  • "formal" means the same as in "formal system". working on symbols. – Tim Aug 27 '20 at 18:24
  • @Tim I don't know what it means in "formal system"! I know what "formal system" means as a term, and I know what "formal language" means as a term, but I don't know what "formal" on its own means to you. Can you precisely define it? – Noah Schweber Aug 27 '20 at 18:25
  • @Tim I don't know what "working on symbols" means. Can you give a precise definition? – Noah Schweber Aug 27 '20 at 18:25
  • I have defined it. the formal part of a logical system is its formal language and its derivable relation – Tim Aug 27 '20 at 18:26
  • @Tim But now I don't understand your question "Is it correct that the derivable relation induced from a deductive system doesn't provide meaning to the formulas, so is formal?" at all. "The derivability relation induced from a deductive system" is basically the whole deductive system - remember that a deductive system is just a formal system with some additional properties (but no additional structure), and a formal system consists of a formal language and a derivability relation. (cont'd) – Noah Schweber Aug 27 '20 at 18:30
  • So either the answer is trivially no, since the derivability relation on its own is not a formal system (we need a formal language as well), or - if you were implicitly including the formal language - it's trivially yes since the derivability relation + the implicitly-included formal language literally is the same thing as the deductive system. Maybe you meant "logical system" in place of "deductive system?" – Noah Schweber Aug 27 '20 at 18:31
  • I am sorry. When I say derivable relation induced by a deductive system, the deductive system is for example sequent calculus, not the one which is a special formal system defined in Hierre's article. I thought the context would make it clear – Tim Aug 27 '20 at 18:32
  • I am new to the terms in logic and formal systems. I thought a veteran like you would have already known them – Tim Aug 27 '20 at 18:33
  • @Tim Since "deductive system" is a technical term you already introduced in the OP, if you're going to use it differently you should explicitly say so. (Personally I recommend the as-yet-unused-here term "proof system.") But yes, a proof system is basically just a deductive system in the original sense of the OP - at least, as long as the proof system is pretty simple (we also sometimes consider e.g. infinitary proof systems, which are no longer compact and so don't correspond to deductive systems, or proof systems for infinitely long formulas, or etc.) – Noah Schweber Aug 27 '20 at 18:34
  • "I am new to the terms in logic and formal systems. I thought a veteran like you would have already known them" I think I've mentioned this before in this context, but: there are so many terms for so many slightly-different notions, and some annoying discrepancies between uses, that it actually becomes an instinct to not reflexively interpret one of those terms in a particular way (with some exceptions - e.g. I've only ever seen EFT's term "regular logic" used in one way). This does make this whole topic deeply obnoxious at first - my only defense there is it's not my fault. :P – Noah Schweber Aug 27 '20 at 18:36
  • Incidentally this is why I really advocate focusing on a single approach at first. It's similar to programming languages, at least to my experience with them: trying to learn a bunch of languages simultaneously made my head hurt, but first learning one on its own made learning the next vastly easier. – Noah Schweber Aug 27 '20 at 18:38
  • Is it accurate to say that $\models_\mathcal{L}$ is a mapping ${S} \to {\text{relation } \subseteq {S-\text{structure}} \times L(S)}$? – Tim Aug 27 '20 at 21:49
  • @Tim Technically no - the way it's described in EFT the object $\models_\mathcal{L}$ is a single relation, between the class of all structures and the class $\bigcup_{\mbox{$S$ a symbol set}}L(S)$. That said, we could also choose to describe it in the way you do, with no issues. – Noah Schweber Aug 27 '20 at 21:52
  • Regarding my comment https://math.stackexchange.com/q/3802956/#comment7843547_3803045, that confusion led to https://math.stackexchange.com/q/3816481/, which was closed on that "deductive system and proof system are the same concept". Now I think that a deductive system is a formal system with its consequence relation having some special properties, while a proof system is a rule-based system i.e. having a set of inference rules. These two are different concepts, but are equivalent (see Herre & Schroeder-Heister “Formal Languages and Systems” p7) – Tim Sep 07 '20 at 12:54