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Is the following definition of '$=$' between numbers (natural, whole, rational, real, complex) correct?

$a=b$ iff $a$ and $b$ denote the same number.

EDIT:

This is the first page of my book "Classical Analysis"

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It is said that '$=$' is an equivalence relation.

So what does the book mean by '$=$'?

Joe
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  • What do you mean by "denote the same number"? This isn't very clear. – Mark Aug 03 '19 at 15:39
  • In this case, $=$ means equivalent and not equal. Usually this is written $a\sim b$ and not $a=b$. Therefore the confusion you had, perhaps. Your text has still the same question, so I cannot remove the duplicate. Actually, you already asked about this here. – Dietrich Burde Aug 03 '19 at 16:18
  • The page begins by defining the axioms of an equivalence relation, and to keep the notation succinct it works with algebraic expressions in which an arbitrary equivalence relation has a symbol, and the symbol chosen is $=$. Equality, the usual meaning of $=$, is just one equivalence relation; a different equivalence relation may be denoted $=$ if the context makes clear either (i) which one is intended or (ii) that arbitrary equivalence relations are being discussed, as here. – J.G. Aug 03 '19 at 16:20
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    See the definition of group here. The wiki talks about "equality", not "equivalence". Does the equations $(2)$ and $(3)$ in my book refer to "equality" also? – Joe Aug 03 '19 at 16:31
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    I think this is extremely awful, for at least three reasons. First, using "$=$" for an arbitrary equivalence relation, as in the first paragraph, is a very bad idea since that symbol has a different standard meaning, namely equality. (Do those equations refer to equality? Who can tell? The second big problem is he says something about an equivalence relation and an operation without introducing proper notation for them! To make the rest of the definition intelligible "an operation such that" should be ... – David C. Ullrich Aug 03 '19 at 16:57
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    "an operation $\circ$ such that" - as it stands we have to guess that $\circ$ is "the operation". Similarly for "an equivalence relation" - if he'd specified the notation properly we wouldn't have to guess what $=$ means.) Third, there is no equivalence relation in the standard definitiion of "group"! The word "group" in this book means something different from what it means everywhere else - bad bad bad bad bad idea. If this is representative of the rest of the text you really need a different book. – David C. Ullrich Aug 03 '19 at 17:05
  • @DavidC.Ullrich: Therefore it seems to me the first chapter of the book (which deals with the construction of real numbers) is horribly awful. Can you suggest some other books which also covers the topics in the first chapter of this book? – Joe Aug 03 '19 at 17:10
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    See https://math.stackexchange.com/a/498660/589 – lhf Aug 03 '19 at 17:12
  • Other books: What ihf said. – David C. Ullrich Aug 03 '19 at 17:17
  • This book is from 1955. I wonder how common this point of view was back then. A recent example is J. Conway, On Numbers and Games, where we define equality of numbers (and of games) using an equivalence relation. – GEdgar Aug 03 '19 at 19:20

1 Answers1

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It's been commented that "usually" an equivalence relation is denoted by $\sim$ instead of $=$. It seems to me that in fact $=$ is never used for an equivalence relation (other than equality). Using $=$ for an arbitrary equivalence relation is a hugely bad idea.

(i) It causes confusion.

(ii) It means we have no way to denote actual equality! That's a problem, for example:

If $\sim$ is an equivalence relation a standard definition of the "equivalence class" containing $x$ is $$[x]_\sim=\{y:y\sim x\}.$$ If we're using "$=$" to denote an equivalence relation then how can we write that definition? It becomes $$[x]_==\{y:y= x\},$$which is impossibly bad notation: The symbol $=$ appears three times, twice referring to the equivalence relation under consideration and once to actual equality. Using the same symbol for two different things - totally wrong. I mean it looks like the author hasn't mastered basic undergraduate mathematical concepts.

(If as you say he's about to construct the real numbers then he will be talking about equivalence classes - I wonder how he gives the definition.)


The Point to Equivalence Relations and Equivalence Classes

To be fair, we should note that often the reason we introduce ann equivalence relation is we want to extend the meaning of "=". Fine, but we'd better not use the same symbol!

For example, say we have the integers $\Bbb Z$ and we want to define the rational numbers. We think about it: All that matters about $n/m$ is the values of $n$ and $m$, so could just talk about ordered pairs, since we already know what they are:

Def 1. A rational number is an ordered pair $(n,m)$ of integers with $m\ne0$.

That amounts to defining $1/2$ by $1/2=(1,2)$. Fine, except it doesn't work. We certainly want a definition such that $1/2=2/4$, but $(1,2)\ne(2,4)$.

"Intuitively" we change the defiinition:

Def 2. A rational number is an ordered pair $(n,m)$ of integers with $m\ne0$, except that $(n,m)=(p,q)$ if $nq=mp$.

That works better; now we have $1/2=(1,2)=(2,4)=2/4$, great. But the problem with that is we've redefined what "$=$" means, leading to problems like (i) and (ii) above.

So we introduce an equivalence relation. Say $$X=\{(n,m):n,m\in\Bbb Z, m\ne0\}.$$Define a relation $\sim$ on $X$ by $$(n,m)\sim(p,q)\text{ if }nq=mp.$$You verify that $\sim$ is ann equivalence relation, and now

Def 3. A rational number is $[(n,m)]_\sim$ for $(n,m)\in X$.

(Or briefly, $\Bbb Q=X/\sim$.)

That works, in fact it's the standard definition. The point to Def 3 is we really wanted to give Def 2, but Def 2 makes no sense; Def 3 is a corrected version of Def 2.

I mention this because you will see many definitions analogous to Def 3; when you're trying to figure out what the definition "really means" the answer is often that it's a corrected version of something analogous to Def 2.

  • that is we have redefined what '$=$' means...... Can you tell what did '$=$' originally mean? – Joe Aug 03 '19 at 18:45
  • @Joe The symbol $=$ denotes equality: $a=b$ means thar $a$ and $b$ are the same thing, – David C. Ullrich Aug 03 '19 at 18:48
  • By same thing, do you mean the same member of the set? – Joe Aug 03 '19 at 18:50
  • @Joe Note $a=b$ means that $a$ and $b$ are the same thing, not that they "denote" the same thing. $a/2=2/4$, but $1/2$ does not denote anything, because ii is not an expression! The two expressions "$1/2$" and "$2/4$" denote the same thing, but $1/2\ne"1/2"$; the first is a number while the second is a sequence of symbols. – David C. Ullrich Aug 03 '19 at 18:53
  • By "same thing" I mean they are exactly the same thing! This doesn't necessarilly have anything to do with sets. Saying $1/2=2/4$ means that $1/2$ annd $2/4$ are identical. – David C. Ullrich Aug 03 '19 at 19:00
  • No, when I say "thing" I don't mean "member of a set". It's impossible to define every word without being circular. You sound like a native English speaker - when I say "thing" I mean anything. (circular...) $1/2$ is a thing. Chicago is a thing. You are a thing. Justice, truth and beauty are things... – David C. Ullrich Aug 03 '19 at 19:07
  • Very nice explanation in second part which shows the importance of equivalence relations in definitions. +1 – Paramanand Singh Aug 04 '19 at 00:21