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I have some big troubles trying to understand specific set theory stuff.

Especially when we demonstrate something about set theory we always have to keep our demonstration in set theory, typically not using second order logic.

For example to demonstrate Löwenheim-Skolem we have to quantify over formulas to explicitly build a countable model. This is a second-order proof, and we usually don't mind doing that. But if one want to show "$\mathrm{ZFC} + \mathrm{Con}(\mathrm{ZFC}) \vdash \exists M$ countable model of ZFC", this should not be possible anymore.

So here are my questions :

  • Can "$\mathrm{ZFC} + \mathrm{Con}(\mathrm{ZFC}) \vdash \exists M$ countable model of ZFC"
  • If yes, how? Since we have to quantify over formulas.
  • Can "$\mathrm{ZFC} + \mathrm{Con}(\mathrm{ZFC}) \vdash \exists M$ countable and transitive model of ZFC"

Thanks in advance

t.b.
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1 Answers1

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First of all you have to ask yourself what does it means when we say $Con(ZFC)$. Can we talk about $ZFC$ as an object inside set theory? Doesn't that require to talk about every formula since Replacement and Separation are schemata of formulas?

The answer lies in the following observation: In $ZFC$ we cannot quantify over metamathematical formulas, that is formulas as objects outside of the universe of set. What we can do though is assign a set to every formula. Then for every formula we have an object in the universe that represents the metamathematical formula. We usually symbolize this as $\ulcorner\phi\urcorner$.

Through this and because of the inductive construction of formulas we can create a formula $Form(x)$ that says "$x$ is a formula" and is true exactly when there is a formula that is assigned to $x$. Furthermore we can create a formula $ZFC(x)$ that says that "$x$ is a formula of $ZFC$". We can create formulas such as $Pr(x)$ that says that using a specific system of logical axiom and inference rules $ZFC$ proves $x$ (through this we can create the sentence $Con(ZFC)$). Also given a set $M$ and a binary relation $E\subset M\times M$ we can create a formula $Sat(M,E,x)$ that says $(M,E)\models x$. Then we can prove about the formulas as objects inside the universe the Lowenheim-Skolem theorem, the completeness theorem, the compactness theorem and every other metamathematical result. $ZFC$ as you know is enough to prove the completeness theorem and so we have that: $$ZFC\vdash Con(ZFC)\iff \exists M\textrm{countable model of}\ ZFC$$

But is it the same? Are the results about these objects that we call formulas inside the universe the same as the results about the metamathematical formulas? The result we can obtain is a schema of theorems that state: $$\phi^{(M,E)}(a_1,\ldots,a_n)\iff(M,E)\models \ulcorner\phi(a_1\ldots,a_n)\urcorner$$

Notice the following: The left hand side refers to the relativization of the metamathematical formula (hence it's a schema of theorems). Now the right-hand side, the formula I wrote in the previous paragraphs that talks about the satisfiability of a formula is definable only when $M$ is a set. Indeed if we could define satisfiability about classes then we would have a truth definition which contradicts Tarski's theorem. It should be noted that we can define satisfiability in classes when we bound the number of alternating quantifiers of formulas: We can define satisfiability for $\Delta_0$ formulas, and for every natural number $n$ we can define the satisfiability of $\Sigma_{n}$ formulas.

For your last question, I am not certain, though I am under the impression that the existence of a transitive model of $ZFC$ is stronger than the consistency of $ZFC$. This is because the set-model that exists due to the consistency may be not standard and may contain infinite descending $\in$-sequences while it thinks that it's well founded (I am aware of such constructions: for example apply Łoś's theorem using a non-principal ultrafilter that is not $\sigma$-complete). Then it would be impossible to apply Mostowski's collapse to get the standard transitive model.

Edit: Keep in mind that Mostowski's theorem has as requirements that the binary relation is well founded in the universe. So given a model $(M,E)$ we may have $x_{n+1} E x_n$ for every $n\in\omega$ but if the set with extension $\{x_n\ :n\in\omega\}$ is not in $M$ the axiom of foundation will not be violated. In such a case it would be impossible to apply Mostowski's theorem.

Edit2: Here's the model I described above. Take a non-principal ultrafilter $\mathcal{U}$ on $\omega$ (that is $\mathcal{U}\subset\mathcal{P}(\omega)$). Of course $\mathcal{U}$ is not $\sigma$-complete since if it was it would be principal. Now take the ulraproduct of the universe modulo $\mathcal{U}$: The universe will be $V^\omega/\mathcal{U}$ that contains equivalence classes of functions $f:\omega\to V$ defined as $[f]:=\{g:\omega\to V : \{n\in\omega : f(n)=g(n)\}\in\mathcal{U}\}$. There is a slight problem here, namely that these may be classes but it can be solved using Scott's trick to turn these classes into sets. Next we define: $$[f]=[g]\iff \{n\in\omega : f(n)=g(n)\}\in\mathcal{U}$$ $$[f]E[g]\iff \{n\in\omega : f(n)\in g(n)\}\in\mathcal{U}$$

So we have a model $(V^\omega/\mathcal{U},E)$. For every formula $\phi$ you can prove the following result using Łoś's theorem: $$(V^\omega/\mathcal{U},E)\models\phi([f_1],\ldots,[f_n])\iff\{m\in\omega : \phi(f_1(m),\ldots,f_n(m))\}\in\mathcal{U}$$

Take note here that this is a schema of theorems. Still it is enough to show in ZFC that the model satisfies foundation since it's one singular axiom.

Now take the functions $f_n(m)=m-n$ (in case $m-n<0$ let $f_n(m)=0$). Since $\mathcal{U}$ is non-principal it contains the Fréchet filter and thus for every $n\in\omega$ the set $\{m\in\omega: m\geq n\}\in\mathcal{U}$. Observe that $f_{n+1}(m)\in f_n(m)$ for every $m>n$. Thus $\{m\in\omega: f_{n+1}(m)\in f_n(m)\}\in\mathcal{U}$ and therefore $[f_{n+1}]E[f_n]$. This is true for every natural number $n$ while the model satisfies the axiom of foundation.

Given an inaccessible cardinal $\kappa$ we can create the above construction in $V_\kappa$ and have the fact that $(V_\kappa^\omega/\mathcal{U},E)\models ZFC$ as a theorem while at the same time we have that there is an infinite descending $E$-sequence.

Apostolos
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  • Firstable, thank you very much for such a complete answer ! ok apparently this is just a comment spot, so I ll continue 'with another answer' – Archimondain Mar 21 '11 at 00:23
  • Ok apparently this is the spot to answer your answer, so I continue here. What you describe at the end seems weird to me. Since Con(ZF) implies Con(ZF)+foundation, can't we work using the model in which fundation is true ? and then do a Mostowski collapse ? (I assume that is what you mean by 'collapsing lemma'). I have another related question, but it is much more complexe ans require another answer. – Archimondain Mar 21 '11 at 00:32
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    @Archimondain: Yes by the collapsing lemma I mean Mostowski's collapse (I'll edit that, I don't know why I called it like that). The model may think that it satisfies foundation but that doesn't mean that it is well-founded. For example even if the model (let's call it $M$) contains sets $x_n$ such that $x_{n+1}\in x_n$, the set ${x_n : n\in\omega}$ may not be in $M$ and so $M$ would satisfy foundation. – Apostolos Mar 21 '11 at 00:38
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    @Archimondain: Just become someone denies having a drinking problem it doesn't mean they don't have one. If you work within the model, it may fiercely deny that it is drunk - however started in a larger universe which already hung the intervention banner. – Asaf Karagila Mar 21 '11 at 00:52
  • But you agree that the traditionnal $V=\cup_{\alpha \in ORD} V_{alpha}$ we use does not only think it satisfies fundation, he also really satisfies it (I mean from the first big model). So any submodel of $V$ cannot not satisfy fundation as well (and again, from outside). – Archimondain Mar 21 '11 at 01:02
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    @Archimondain: This is true only if the model $(M,E)$ has as $E$ the real $\in$. But this may not be the case at all. The consistency admits the existence of a model of ZFC. This doesn't mean that the membership relation in that model is the real $\in$. It is possible that this $E$ is a very different relation and it may not be well founded. – Apostolos Mar 21 '11 at 02:01
  • @Apostos : But it seems to me that it is always possible to do that. When we apply Lowenheim-skolem theorem on a model $(M,R)$ with R a binary relation we find a model $(M',R')$ where $M' \subset M$, $R'= R \cap M' \times M'$ and $M' \preceq M$. So we still should have the true relation $\epsilon$... – Archimondain Mar 21 '11 at 13:47
  • @Archimondian: But we apply the L-S theorem on the model that is exists because of the consistency. We cannot apply the L-S theorem in a class model since as I pointed out we cannot define satisfiability over classes. I will edit my answer providing a class-model of ZFC such that is not well founded. – Apostolos Mar 21 '11 at 14:16
  • Thanks for this beautiful construction ;) – Archimondain Mar 21 '11 at 15:06
  • @Apostos. But still, I am sorry to be so slow to get it, but Either you suppose Con(ZFC) means we have a set-model of ZFC and then you can extract a submodel satisfying fundation, apply L-S on it and then mostowski collapse and we get a transitive countable ZFC model, or you suppose Con(ZF) means you have a model wich is not necessarily a set, and then, first you cannot proove $ZFC \vdash Con(ZFC)\longrightarrow \exists M$ countable model of $ZFC$, but even worse, Con(ZFC) should not even be a first order statment anymore (since as you said it would violate Tarski's theorem) – Archimondain Mar 21 '11 at 15:24
  • @Archimondain: Having a set-model that satisfies foundation doesn't mean that you have a model in which you can apply Mostowski's theorem. Foundation is weaker than the well-foundedness of the model, which is what Asaf and I have been trying to tell you. The model may think that it is well founded but this doesn't mean that it is. The consistency produces a set-model but this doesn't mean that it produces a model that has as the membership relation the real $\in$. – Apostolos Mar 21 '11 at 15:33
  • Yes I do agree. But what I mean is if I have $V' \subset V$ such as $V$ satisfies fundation, $(V',\epsilon) \preceq (V,\epsilon)$ and $V$ thinks that $V'$ is countable, then not only $V'$ will think it satisfies fundation, but also $V$ will think that $V'$ satisfies fundation. So we can do mostowsky collapse on $V'$, from $V$ point-of-view since $(V, \epsilon)$ will always think that $\epsilon$ is set-like and well-founded for $(V', \epsilon)$... – Archimondain Mar 21 '11 at 15:46
  • @Archimondain: Yes but that would give us a transitive model in $V$ and not a transitive model in the universe. As I said, I am not completely sure on the answer to your last question. I have a book that states (without proof) that the existence of a transitive model is stronger than the existence of a set model and this is the reason I am leaning towards "no". – Apostolos Mar 21 '11 at 15:52
  • @Archimondain: Furthermore, it is not certain that the construction of $V'$ can pass inside of $V$ since $V$ thinks that it's a class and therefore maybe the application of Lowenheim-Skolem from $V$'s point of view may not be possible. Furthermore $V$ may not think that $V'$ is countable since the construction via L-S is done outside of $V$. – Apostolos Mar 21 '11 at 15:54
  • Hum... ok, thank you very much for your answers, I still not fully understand, but at least I understand much more than before. I think you are right that ZFC cannot proove it has a countable transitive model, not because I see it, but because I was told so. If I find why, I will let you know ;) – Archimondain Mar 21 '11 at 16:13
  • Just some precisions. Actually I think it'a abusive to write (for exemple) $ZF \vdash Con(ZF) \longrightarrow Con(ZF+AF)$. I think what is true is $ZF \vdash \exists M$ such as $M \vDash ZF+AF$. which implies '$Con(ZF) \longrightarrow Con(ZF+AF)$'. But this is probably not a ZF statement. – Archimondain Mar 21 '11 at 20:07
  • By the soundness theorem, the existence of a set model implies consistency of ZF. The existence of a set model does not appear to imply the existence of a transitive set model. Also, note that "It turns out that the existence of a standard model of ZFC is indeed a stronger assumption than the consistency of ZFC, but we will ignore this nicety." (footnote 3 on p.5 in "A beginner's guide to forcing" by Timothy Chow. – 0 _ Dec 10 '16 at 09:44