1

I am looking to find out how the second derivative formula works. I can blindly apply it but I don't have a grasp of what is going on or why.

The first derivitive has the formula $\frac{dy}{dx} = \frac{\frac{dy}{dt}}{\frac{dx}{dt}}$. I told this was because if you divide them you cancel out the dts and get dy/dx.

The second derivative has the formula $\frac{d^2y}{dx^2} = \frac{d}{dx} \left(\frac{dy}{dx}\right) = \frac{ \frac{d}{dt}\left(\frac{dy}{dx}\right) }{\frac{dx}{dt}}$. Is this something that can be explained with only a knowledge of calculus or is this something I would have to take on faith until I learn more. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

K.defaoite
  • 12,536
  • 2
    "I told this was because if you divide them you cancel out..." Are you aware that this is false and only acceptable as mnemotechnic trick? BTW, are you aware that the derivative isn't a quotient? https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/21199/is-frac-textrmdy-textrmdx-not-a-ratio – Martín-Blas Pérez Pinilla Mar 03 '18 at 19:40
  • 1
    I was told that sometimes it can be treated as a ratio (such as as in separable equations) and sometimes not. And was told that it was hard to explain why so thank you very much for the link. – Don Quixote Mar 04 '18 at 07:34
  • For a simple derivation, here's something: https://math.stackexchange.com/a/49739/775661 – Alex Trevithick Apr 19 '20 at 18:27

3 Answers3

1

Note $$\frac{d}{dx}\left(\frac{dy}{dt}\right)=\frac{dt}{dx}\frac{d}{dt}\left(\frac{dy}{dt}\right)=\frac{dt}{dx}\frac{d^2y}{dt^2}$$ and $$\frac{d}{dx}\left(\frac{dx}{dt}\right)=\frac{dt}{dx}\frac{d^2x}{dt^2}$$

Use the quotient rule $$\frac{d^2y}{dx^2}=\frac{d}{dx}\left(\frac{dy/dt}{dx/dt}\right)=\frac{\frac{d}{dx}(\frac{dy}{dt})\frac{dx}{dt}-\frac{d}{dx}(\frac{dx}{dt})\frac{dy}{dt}}{(\frac{dx}{dt})^2}=\frac{\frac{dt}{dx}\frac{d^2y}{dt^2}\frac{dx}{dt}-\frac{dt}{dx}\frac{d^2x}{dt^2}\frac{dy}{dt}}{(\frac{dx}{dt})^2}$$ $$=\frac{\frac{d^2y}{dt^2}-\frac{d^2x}{dt^2}\frac{dy}{dx}}{(\frac{dx}{dt})^2}$$ Now multiply top and bottom of the fraction by $\frac{dx}{dt}$: $$=\frac{\frac{dx}{dt}\frac{d^2y}{dt^2}-\frac{dy}{dt}\frac{d^2x}{dt^2}}{(\frac{dx}{dt})^3}$$ This is the correct formula for the second derivative of a parametric equation.

A. Goodier
  • 10,964
  • This is how I would have derived it, but your result does not match the formula in the questions and I cannot see how they are equal. – user432944 Oct 31 '23 at 13:41
  • @user432944 The result stated in the question follows immediately from the chain rule, as explained in Ahmed's answer. My answer gives an expression for the second derivative in terms of the first and second derivatives of $x$ and $y$ w.r.t. $t$, which can often be more convenient to use. – A. Goodier Oct 31 '23 at 18:48
  • To see they are the same, write $dy/dx$ in terms of $dy/dt$ and $dx/dt$ and then differentiate $dy/dx$ with respect to $t$. – A. Goodier Oct 31 '23 at 18:48
1

$f’(x)=\frac{dy}{dx}$ is a function of $x$, applying the chain rule gives:

$$\frac{df’}{dx} \frac{dx}{dt}=\frac{df’}{dt}=\frac{d}{dt} f’ $$

Now solve for $f’’(x)= \frac{df’}{dx} $ assuming $\frac{dx}{dt} \neq 0$.

1

So we have two functions $x = x(t)$ and $y = y(t)$ defined for $t \in [a,b]$.

For every $t$ we can combine the values of those functions into a point with coordinates $(x(t),y(t))$. Then, if we consider all the points for every $t\in[a,b]$, we'll get some curve $L$, which is called a parametric curve with parameter $t$.

Choose some $t_0$ from $[a,b]$, which would give you a point on a curve $(x(t_0),y(t_0)) = (x_0,y_0) \in L$. The whole curve can be really wild - intersecting itself, going vertically up or down, etc. - but in some small enough neighbourhood of $t_0$ it will (usually) look like a graph of some function $Y(x)$. Knowing that both $x$ and $y$ are actually functions of $t$ we can write that $x = x(t)$ and $y=y(t)=Y(x(t))$ (near $(x_0,y_0)$).

Now, we can analyse $Y(x)$ using plain old calculus and, in doing that, we can analyse the parametric curve near $(x_0,y_0)$.

Let's find the first derivative $Y'(x)$: $$ \begin{array}{l} y(t) = Y(x(t)) \\ y'(t) = Y'(x(t)) \cdot x'(t) \\ Y'(x(t)) = \frac{x'(t)}{y'(t)} \end{array} $$

or $\frac{dY}{dx}$, in dx-dy notation:

$$ \begin{array}{l} \frac{dy}{dt} = \frac{dY}{dx} \frac{dx}{dt} \\ \frac{dY}{dx} = \frac{dx}{dt} / \frac{dy}{dt} \end{array} $$

So now we can plug $t$'s in the formula we got and that would give us the rise-over-run values for $(x(t),y(t))$, so we can judge whether the curve's going up or down, draw our tangent lines, etc.

Now, for the second derivative $Y''(x)$ ! $$ \begin{array}{l} (Y'(x(t)))^{'}_t = (Y'(x(t)))^{'}_x \cdot x'(t) \\ (Y'(x(t)))^{'}_t = Y''(x(t)) \cdot x'(t) \\ Y''(x(t)) = \frac{(Y'(x(t)))^{'}_t}{x'(t)} \end{array} $$

or, using dx-xy notation, we want to find $\frac{d^2 Y}{dx^2}$:

$$ \begin{array}{l} \frac{d}{dt}\left[\frac{dY}{dx}\right] = \frac{d^2 Y}{dx^2} \frac{dx}{dy} \\ \frac{d^2 Y}{dx^2} = \frac{d}{dt}\left[\frac{dY}{dx}\right] / \frac{dx}{dy} \end{array} $$

So now you can tell whether your $Y(x)$ is convex or concave, which helps to better understand how $L$ looks.

We never actually fixed $t_0$ to some number, so these derivatives would be valid for every $t_0$, for which they actually exist (no division by zero and stuff like that). The only problem is there might exist another value $t_1$, such that $x(t_1)=x(t_0)=x_0$ and $y(t_1)=y(t_0)=y_0$, i.e. the curve might intersect itself at $(x_0,y_0)$. If so, there would be multiple values of $Y'(x(t))$ and $Y''(x(t))$ at $(x_0,y_0)$ - one for every $t_i$, such that $(x(t_i),y(t_i)) = (x_0,y_0)$. Which makes sense: if a curve intersects itself at a point, you can draw multiple tangent lines to it there.

iry
  • 111