5

I recently was wondering about how one could in some sense generalize model theory to the case where the meta theory is not a set theory. I just stumbled across this answer about interpretability ( https://math.stackexchange.com/a/315451/463016 ) and was curious if this does in some sense do that, or if not, whether there is something else that does?

Lambda
  • 195
  • While it's true that there are interpretations of theories into set theory that don't coincide with the existence of models, the converse (that there are models that don't admit description as instances of some syntactic translation) is also true, I think. For a model with carrier set $M$, the natural thing to do is take "$x\in M$" as the translation of "$\mathrm{Dom}(x)$; but under most treatments, the translation of $\mathrm{Dom}(x)$ is allowed to have exactly one free variable, so you'd need to be able to express $M$ as a closed abstract. (cont'd) – Malice Vidrine Aug 08 '17 at 01:13
  • Though it's definitely the case that interpretability makes sense in some cases where talk of models wouldn't make sense. I can't imagine a notion of "a model in $\mathsf{PA}$" that makes any particular sense, but you can talk about interpretations into $\mathsf{PA}$. – Malice Vidrine Aug 08 '17 at 01:18
  • @MaliceVidrine can you explain why $\mathrm{Dom}(x)$ is allowed to have a free variable and what that free variable represents? Also, sorry for my ignorance, but what is a "closed abstract"? – Lambda Aug 08 '17 at 02:18
  • A closed abstract is a term of the form ${x:\phi}$ with no free variables. For the rest, let me consolidate my comments into an answer, since they're running long and may be helpful. – Malice Vidrine Aug 08 '17 at 09:19

2 Answers2

5

Yes, if you take the perspective of categorical logic. The key idea of categorical logic is that to every flavor of logic, you can associate some categorical structure. Every theory $T$ of the logic is represented by a category $C_T$ with that structure, a model of $T$ is a functor $C_T \to \mathrm{Set}$ which preserves the structure in the appropriate way, and an interpretation of $T$ in $T'$ is a functor $C_T \to C_{T'}$, which again preserves the structure appropriately.

So models and interpretations are the same kinds of things. More broadly, given any category $D$, you can call a structure-preserving functor $C_T\to D$ a model of $T$ in $D$ or an interpretation of $T$ in $D$. And more radically, you can view every structured category as a theory and every structure-preserving functor as a model/interpretation.

The simplest example of this paradigm is Lawvere theories (categories with finite products), which captures equational logic. The categorical structure capturing classical first-order logic is more complicated: these categories are called Boolean pretoposes.

I should note that while conceptually one can erase the distinction between models and interpretations, in practice the categories (like Set) that are appropriate for models and the categories (like $C_T$) that are appropriate for interpretations tend to have a different flavor.

For example, there's a big difference between a model of $T$ in Set and an interpretation of $T$ in set theory (let's say ZFC for concreteness). In Set, the objects are sets and the arrows are functions. In $C_{\mathrm{ZFC}}$, the objects are definable sets relative to ZFC (i.e. definable classes) and the arrows are definable functions (i.e. definable class functions). This distinction is the main point of Malice Vidrine's answer.

Alex Kruckman
  • 76,357
  • I asked this below on Malice Vidrine's answer, but would it be possible to clarify in which sense "definable" is meant here? There seems to be both an "internal" notion (related to "definitorial expansion" or "extension by definitions" of a f.o. language) and an "external" notion of "definable set" (and if the latter, then also a distinction between whether it is meant "with parameters" or "without parameters"). As a novice it's not clear which sense is meant here to me based on the context, especially because the two (three) notions appear to be related in some way. – Chill2Macht Jan 16 '23 at 01:22
  • 1
    @Chill2Macht I don't understand the internal/external distinction you're making here. Maybe it would be better to ask a new question, linking to all these answers that you commented on, and elaborating on what you're confused about. – Alex Kruckman Jan 16 '23 at 20:43
  • I agree, this definitely does seem like the basis for a new question, I was just optimistically hoping it was dumb/easy enough to squash quickly in a comment. I'd have to spend a lot more time thinking about how to clarify it enough to ensure that it's answerable. But basically "internal" should refer to "object theory" and "external" should refer to "metatheory" I think generally (part of the issue being that most standard treatments don't make their metatheory explicit). I'm parroting the "internal"/"external" terminological dichotomy from nonstandard analysis, but I might not understand it. – Chill2Macht Jan 16 '23 at 20:56
3

I want to first preface this by mentioning that it's been a while since I used any of this stuff, so I may need to edit this for silly mistakes a couple of times.

While it's true that there are interpretations of theories into set theory that don't coincide with the existence of models (such as the interpretation of $\mathsf{ZFC}$ in $\mathsf{ZF}$), the converse (that there are models that don't admit description as instances of some syntactic translation) may also be true, I think. For a model with carrier set $M$, the natural thing to do is take "$x\in M$" as the translation of "$\mathrm{Dom}(v)$"; but under most treatments, the translation of $\mathrm{Dom}(v)$ is allowed to have exactly one free variable, so you'd need to be able to express $M$ as a closed abstract. (Perhaps someone else can fill in the gap here about what can be proven about the existence of indefinable models.)

Nevertheless, you can apply interpretability without knowing too much about semantics, and you can ask things like "does $S$ have an interpretation in $\mathsf{PA}$" when you can't necessarily ask "does it have a model in $\mathsf{PA}$," for example.

Additional comments

To answer what $\mathrm{Dom}(v)$ represents, let's assume that this predicate is in the language of the theory $S$, and its translation is in the language of the the theory $T$. The translation (which I denote $i(\mathrm{Dom}(v))$ following the linked post) is meant to delineate, in the universe of $T$, the "sub-universe" in which $S$ is interpreted. That is, for any model $\mathcal{M}\vDash T$ and any $\varphi$ in the language of $S$, every quantifier in the translation $i(\varphi)$ will be restricted to $\{x\in M\;|\;\mathcal{M}\vDash\ulcorner i(\mathrm{Dom}(v))\urcorner[x]\}$. For example, in the $\mathsf{ZFC}$-into-$\mathsf{ZF}$ example, we can interpret "$\mathrm{Dom}(v)$" (once we add it to the language of $\mathsf{ZFC}$) as "$v\textrm{ is constructible}$."

The reason $i(\mathrm{Dom}(v))$ is not allowed to have any variables beyond $v$ is simply that for any sentence $\varphi\in S$, $i(\varphi)$ is also supposed to be a sentence with $T\vdash i(\varphi)$. If the translation adds on new variables, this breaks down and takes closed formulae to open ones. (However, it is permissible that $i(\mathrm{Dom}(v))$ have no free variables, contrary to what I recalled when I commented.)

I hope this answers your question a little, and if it doesn't, I hope it's informative in other ways.

  • 1
    I think in the linked post, Dom only existed in the theory T, and I think it only really makes sense in the theory T, because everything in S should in some sense 'satisfy' the 'pre-image' of Dom? – Lambda Aug 08 '17 at 16:56
  • 1
    Also, I agree that it makes sense that not every interpretation into a set theory corresponds to a model since for example ${x : \mathrm{Dom}(x)}$ need not be a set. However, I'm having trouble seeing that there are models which don't correspond to an interpretation since you should just be able to translate the function symbols, relation symbols according to the model and take $\mathrm{Dom(x)}$ to be "$x\in M"? – Lambda Aug 08 '17 at 17:04
  • 1
    Re: whether $\mathrm{Dom}(x)$ exists only in $T$, this is just a difference in treatment. You can either just use some formula in the language of $T$, which "$\mathrm{Dom}(x)$" is a short hand for, and build it into the notion of translation, or you can add it as an atomic formula to $S$ with the axiom that it is true of everything, and interpret it exactly as you would other atomic formula. I'm just more familiar with the latter. – Malice Vidrine Aug 09 '17 at 01:35
  • 1
    And as I've said, $x\in M$ violates the condition of variables; unless $M$ is definable, or you have a constant symbol for it and it's a theorem that "$M$ is a model of $S$", the formula has two free variables. The requirement that $T\vdash \exists x.i(\mathrm{Dom}(x))$ would do untenable things. If this formula had an extra free variable, then this usually means that $T\vdash \forall v.\exists x.i(\mathrm{Dom}(x))$ where $v$ is this extra variable. The best outcome is that $T$ would prove that every object of its universe parameterized the kind of domain we wanted, which isn't helpful. – Malice Vidrine Aug 09 '17 at 01:57
  • When you say "M is definable" (in the answer and the comments),to clarify, do you mean "definable" in the sense of "definable set" (e.g. its usage in Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definable_set )which apparently is usually an "external" notion (=metatheory notion?) in the contexts it's normally used,or do you mean "definable" in the sense of "definitorial expansion of a first-order language" (e.g. its usage in Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extension_by_definitions)which apparently is an "internal" notion (=object theory notion?)? Do thoset two usages/meanings coincide here? – Chill2Macht Jan 16 '23 at 01:10
  • I guess also one needs to clarify, when saying "definable set" in the "external" notion, whether one is referring to exclusively "definable without parameters" (which seems similar / reflective of "internal" "definitorial expansion"???), or whether one also means to include "definable with parameters" (which seems to be distinct) -- is either of those meanings being used implicitly here? I need to read over and think about the discussion of closed abstracts and free variables in the above more, but superficially it seems similar to a "definable with parameters" vs "w/o parameters" distinction. – Chill2Macht Jan 16 '23 at 01:13