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The Entscheidungsproblem asks if we can find an effective procedure to decide for every formula of first-order logic if its true or false, or what is the same with regard to its completeness, if it is provable or not. This could be read on wikipedia.

This problem was answered in the negative by Church and Turing. But looking into Turings original paper "On computable numbers" in chapter eleven titled Application to the Entscheidungsproblem he wrote:

I propose, therefore, to show that there can be no general process for determining wheter a given formula $\mathfrak U$ of the functional calculus $K$ is provable.

(Remark: functional calculus means first order logic) and then he proceeds:

[...] if, for each $\mathfrak U$, either $\mathfrak U$ or $-\mathfrak U$ is provable, then we should have an immediate solution of the Entscheidungsproblem. For we can invent a machine $\mathcal K$ which will prove consecutively all provable formulae. Sooner or later $\mathcal K$ will reach either $\mathfrak U$ or $-\mathfrak U$. If it reaches $\mathfrak U$, then we know that $\mathfrak U$ is provable. If it reaches $-\mathfrak U$, then, since $K$ is consistent (Hilbert and Ackermann, p. 69), we know that $\mathfrak U$ is not provable.

As K. Gödel established that first-order logic is complete, see here, this argument, gives its decidability??

Could someone please explain this contradiction?

I also consulted several other sources, but they all seems very inconclusive. For example in the book The essential Turing by Jack Copeland on page 50:

On p. 84 of 'On Computable Numbers' Turing pointed out - by way of a preliminary - a fact that Hilbertians appear to have overlooked: if a systems is complete then it follows that it is also decidable. Bernays, Hilbert's close collaborator, had said: 'One observes that [the] requirement of deductive completeness does not go as far as the requirement of decidability' Turing's simple argument on p. 84 shows that there is no conceptual room for the disctinction that Bernays is claiming.

So, according to Jack Copeland we must conclude that first-order logic is not complete...

StefanH
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  • As I understand it, the machine simply enumerates all proofs, and sooner or later by completeness it will find a proof of $A$ or $\neg A$, and this enumeration certainly is effective (i.e. could be carried out by a Turing machine). Completeness hence guarantees that it terminates. – StefanH Jul 04 '17 at 15:41
  • G's completenss says that "if a formula is logically valid then there is a finite deduction of the formula." The issue is that for FOL we have no truth-table equivalent, i.e. we have no machine that, given as input a formula $A$ answer with: it is valid or not. It is not true that for every FOL formula $A$: either $A$ is valid or $\lnot A$ is. Consider $\forall x \ (x=0)$; it is false in $\mathbb N$ (and thus not valid) but its negation $\exists x \ (x \ne 0)$ is false in a domain with only element the number zero. – Mauro ALLEGRANZA Jul 04 '17 at 15:54
  • Refering to your first comment, I do not see in what sense a solution of the Entscheidungsproblem gives completeness. If I have a valid formula, how to find a proof if I can decide if it is valid or if there exists a proof? I do not see how this is related to what Turing writes... – StefanH Jul 04 '17 at 16:04
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    Basically, the issue is: there are valid formulae $A$ that are provable and there are unsatisfiable ones $B$ (the negation of valid ones) that are refutable, i.e. such that $\lnot B$ is provable. And there are formulas $C$ that are satisfiable but not (universally) valid (see comment above). If we start the "machine" with $C$ it will never end, because neither $C$ nor $\lnot C$ is a theorem, and thus - after a finite number of steps - I've have not received an answer and thus I cannot "decide". – Mauro ALLEGRANZA Jul 04 '17 at 16:26
  • We need to define negation completeness: for every $A$, either $A$ or $\lnot A$ is provable (in the system). Consider now the simplified example of propositional calculus: it is (deductively) complete: every valid formula (i.e. tautology) is derivable: it is decidable (see: truth table): it is not negation complete: neither the formula $p \lor q$ is provable (it is not a tautology) nor its negation: $\lnot (p \lor q)$, i.e. $\lnot p \land \lnot q$ is. – Mauro ALLEGRANZA Jul 04 '17 at 17:22
  • As I've tried to explain, the Remark you have quoted is relative to G's Incompleteness Th and not to G's Completeness one. What Turing is asserting is that is result about the undecidability of FOL is not the same result proved by Godel regarding the incompleteness of PM-modified system. – Mauro ALLEGRANZA Jul 04 '17 at 17:27

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The word "complete" has two meanings here:

  • A theory $T$ (like Peano arithmetic, or ZFC) is complete if for every sentence $\varphi$ (in the appropriate language), $T$ either proves or disproves $\varphi$. Bernays helpfully refers to this as deductive completeness, although for some reason Copeland does not when he quotes Bernays. For example, in order for Peano arithmetic to be complete, we would need to have it either prove or disprove the sentence "Peano arithmetic is complete" (or rather, usual representation of this sentence in the language of arithmetic via Godel coding).

  • A proof system $\mathfrak{P}$ (like natural deduction) is complete if for every sentence $\varphi$, if $\varphi$ is true in every structure then $\vdash_\mathfrak{P}\varphi$. (Here "$\vdash_\mathfrak{P}$" means "proves in the sense of $\mathfrak{P}$.) For example, if $\psi$ is the conjunction of the finitely many group axioms and $\varphi$ is the sentence $$(\forall x, y(x*y*x^{-1}=x))\implies(\forall x, y(x*y=y*x)),$$ then we need to have $\vdash_\mathfrak{P}\psi\implies\varphi$ if $\mathfrak{P}$ is going to be complete, because $\varphi$ is true in every group.

    • By the way we can extend provability to talk about proving a sentence from arbitrary sets of sentences: if $\Gamma$ is a set of sentences and $\varphi$ is a sentence, we write "$\Gamma\vdash_\mathfrak{P}\varphi$" if for some finite $\Gamma_0\subseteq \Gamma$, we have $\vdash_\mathfrak{P}\psi\implies\varphi$ where $\psi$ is the conjunction of the finitely many sentences in $\Gamma$. By the Compactness Theorem, if $\mathfrak{P}$ is complete then $\Gamma\vdash_\mathfrak{P}\varphi$ if $\varphi$ is true in every model of $\Gamma$. This is not how this is usually presented, but I'm trying to make things line up a bit better for your question.

So the two notions of completeness are fundamentally different. The use of the same word to refer to these two different phenomena is unfortunate, but that's how it is.


Now let's think about how the following two statements interact:

  • The usual proof system $\mathfrak{P}$ for first-order logic is complete.

  • The theory Peano arithmetic is not complete.

The second means that there is a sentence which Peano arithmetic neither proves nor disproves via the usual deductive system, and the first means that that deductive system isn't missing anything. So our conclusion is:

There is a sentence $\varphi$ in the language of arithmetic, and two models $\mathcal{M}_1,\mathcal{M}_2$ of PA, such that $\varphi$ is true in $\mathcal{M}_1$ and false in $\mathcal{M}_2$.


Finally, let's look back at the issue of decidability.

If $\Gamma$ is a decidable set of sentences (e.g. any finite set of axioms, or PA - note that I'm not saying that the set of consequences of $\Gamma$ is decidable!), then we can search through all possible proofs from $\Gamma$ - and so the set $Prov(\Gamma)$ of sentences that $\Gamma$ proves is recursively enumerable. In particular, taking $\Gamma=\emptyset$ we have that the set of tautologies (= sentences true in every structure) is recursively enumerable. However, if $\Gamma$ is incomplete, then not every sentence is provable or refutable from $\Gamma$, and so if we search for a proof or disproof of such a sentence we won't find it. This means:

If $\Gamma$ is a decidable set of sentences but is not complete, then there's no reason to believe that the set $Prov(\Gamma)$ of things provable from $\Gamma$ is decidable.

Of course $Prov(\Gamma)$ might be decidable, but the point is that it also might not be.

However, the Halting Problem can decide whether a sentence is provable from $\Gamma$ (if $\Gamma$ is a decidable set of sentences): given a sentence $\varphi$, let $T_\varphi$ be the Turing machine which searches for a $\Gamma$-proof of $\varphi$, and halts if it finds one (and doesn't halt otherwise). Exercise: there is such a Turing machine, and we can recursively find an index for it uniformly in $\varphi$. Then $T_\varphi$ halts iff $\Gamma\vdash_\mathfrak{P}\varphi$.

Noah Schweber
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  • Regarding what you write after your two items "The first means that [...]", have you switched the references, should it not read "The second means that [...] and the first means [...]? Also Gödel does not imply that there exists a valid statement in PA [i.e. true in every model] such that neither this statement nor its negation is provable? This seems to be quite different to what you conclude? – StefanH Jul 04 '17 at 17:14
  • Also how is your conclusion about a sentence and two models in PA possible, if PA is categorical (i.e. any two models are isomorphic)? – StefanH Jul 04 '17 at 17:20
  • So when $\Gamma$ is decidable and complete, then $Prov(\Gamma)$ is decidable (which precisely is the Entscheidungsproblem), this is Turing's argumentation, or not? – StefanH Jul 04 '17 at 17:30
  • @StefanH PA is not categorical. It's second-order version is, of course, but when logicians speak of PA they almost uniformly mean the first-order version. (Similarly, although it talks about sets ZFC is a first-order theory.) Note that by contrast with first-order logic, second-order logic does not have a complete proof system. – Noah Schweber Jul 04 '17 at 19:42
  • "Also Gödel does not imply that there exists a valid statement in PA [i.e. true in every model] such that neither this statement nor its negation is provable? This seems to be quite different to what you conclude" Godel does not imply that; phrased model-theoretically, Godel proves that there is a statement true in some models of PA (including the standard one) but false in others. – Noah Schweber Jul 04 '17 at 19:43
  • "have you switched the references?" Yup, good catch - fixed! – Noah Schweber Jul 04 '17 at 19:43
  • Incidentally, your first sentence "The Entscheidungsproblem asks if we can find an effective procedure to decide for every formula of first-order logic if its true or false, or what is the same with regard to its completeness, if it is provable or not." is wrong: the Entscheidungsproblem refers only to provability, not truth. There is a huge gap between theme set of tautologies of first-order logic has Turing degree $0'$,while the set of true sentences (= true in the structure $\mathbb{N}$) has Turing degree $0^{(\omega)}$, which is vastly bigger. – Noah Schweber Jul 04 '17 at 19:46
  • What is the difference between your formulation of Gödels Incompl Th (there exists models just that the statement is true, as some where it is false) to the following formulation: "there will always be statements about the natural numbers that are true, but that are unprovable within the system" [taken from wikipedia]? I understand it to mean there exists valid, logically true, statements, not provable. Isn't that quite a different formulation? – StefanH Jul 05 '17 at 08:40
  • @StefanH "I understand it to mean there exists valid, logically true, statements, not provable." That's an incorrect understanding - specifically, the "valid, logically true" bit. The sentences in question are true in the specific structure $\mathbb{N}$, not logical consequences of the axioms under consideration. One way to phrase Godel's theorem is: given any computably enumerable set $T$ of first-order sentences true about $\mathbb{N}$, there will be some sentence $\varphi$ in the language of arithmetic which is true of $\mathbb{N}$ but not provable from $T$. (cont'd) – Noah Schweber Jul 10 '17 at 23:36
  • "True of $\mathbb{N}$" is very different from "logically valid." You are conflating provability (and validity) with truth in a specific structure. (You're also mistaking second-order PA for a first-order theory; it's not, and so Godel doesn't apply to it.) – Noah Schweber Jul 10 '17 at 23:37
  • Ok, but just a question then: If some formula is just true in some specific model, then surely it is not provable, as a provable formula is logcially valid, or not? – StefanH Jul 11 '17 at 08:36
  • @StefanH Basically yes, but let me be a bit more precise. (1) "Logically valid" is the same as "provable from the empty theory;" and "provable from the theory $T$" means (by Completeness) "true in every model of $T$." So (2) If $p$ is true in some models of $T$ but not others, then $p$ is neither provable nor disprovable from $T$. (3) Godel thus says that for any "reasonable" theory $T$, there is a sentence true in some but not all models of $T$. And (4) all of this (+ Incompleteness) applies only to first-order theories, and what you call Peano arithmetic is not a first-order theory. – Noah Schweber Jul 11 '17 at 20:09
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You are skipping a crucial passage! Right between the two passages you quote, Turing writes:

It should perhaps be remarked what I shall prove is quite different from the well-known results of Gödel [15]. Gödel has shown that (in the formalism of Principia Mathematica) there are propositions U such that neither U nor –U is provable. As a consequence of this, it is shown that no proof of consistency of Principia Mathematica (or of K) can be given within that formalism. On the other hand, I shall show that there is no general method which tells whether a given formula U is provable in K ...

That is: Turing points out that Godel proved the incompleteness of arithmetic, whereas he himself is going to prove a result about the very system of logic itself. Indeed, the Entscheidungsproblem was the question of deciding whether some logic statement is valid or not. And given Godel's completeness result for logic (there are axioms for logic (such as provided by Principia Mathematica) such that every valid logic statement can be proven from those axioms), that is the same question as deciding whether a logic statement is provable (using a complete set of axioms for logic) or not.

And no, the completeness of logic does not entail decidability of logic. Again, completeness means that every valid formula $A$ can be proven from the axioms of logic, and that means that if $A$ is not valid, it cannot be proven. Now, in the case where $A$ is a contradiction, then $\neg A$ can be proven, but in the case that $A$ is a contingency, then neither $A$ not $\neg A$ can be proven (assuming consistency of the axioms). So, provability does not at all imply decidability. And in fact, Turing showed that first-order logic is not decidable, despite it being complete.

Bram28
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  • First in your cited paragraph, should it not mean "[...] there are valid propositions $U$ such that [...]", i.e. Turing forgot to write that? And anyway, he cleary writes "[...] if the negation of what Gödel has shown had been proved [...] we should have an immediate solution of the Entscheidungsproblem." - so what do you think about this statement? Doesn't is say that completeness gives decidability? – StefanH Jul 04 '17 at 16:58
  • @StefanH No, it should not be valid. Again, this is about arithmetic, where propositions are arithmetically true or false, but (typically) not valid, i.e. logically true. E.g. 1+1=2 is arithmetically true, but not logically true, and thus not valid. And " the negation of what Gödel has shown" would be far stronger than the mere completeness of logic: it would amount to the decidability of arithmetic, which strictly implies the completeness of arithmetic, which strictly implies the completeness of logic. And the decidability of arithmetic strictly implies the decidability of logic. – Bram28 Jul 04 '17 at 17:06
  • I am somehow lost in your last remarks, but let me ask: As arithmetic (which means Peano, right?) is categorical, that means that the valid (i.e. logically) true statements are exactly the arithmetically true ones, or not? – StefanH Jul 04 '17 at 17:41
  • @StefanH Hmm, and unfortunately I am not sure what 'categorical' means. But: I think my warlier example still stands: 1+1=2 is an arithmetical truth (well, can be inferred fro the Peano axioms) but not a logical truth: I can easily interpret 1.2, and + in a way that makes the statement false. – Bram28 Jul 04 '17 at 18:22
  • This means that up to ismorphism there exists just one model, hence every sentence if valid (logical truth) iff it is an arithmetical truth. – StefanH Jul 05 '17 at 08:33