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I'm trying to understand Godel's second incompleteness theorem, which by my understanding is equivalent to, "An axiomatic system [with certain complexity and soundness properties] $F$ cannot prove its own consistency, i.e. $F⊬(F ⊬ 0=1)$" as a specific example following on from the first incompleteness theorem stating, "There is some syntatically valid sentence that $F$ cannot prove either true or false."

I understand that consistency is a ludicrously strong statement, since it's effectively an assertion over a set of completely general, arbitararily complex sentences and because of that, I wouldn't expect it to be provable to begin with. However, the 2IT says that this statement's not merely practically unreasonable, but directly implies a contradiction. (Or has some other self-defeating implication)

So, what contradiction can be derived from the assumption that a sound theory can prove that it itself is consistent, and how?

Gerry Myerson
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redroid
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2 Answers2

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No, the 2nd Incompleteness Theorem is just saying that "$F$ can't prove that $F$ can't prove that $0 = 1$". This is the same as saying that $F$ can't prove it's consistent - to say "$F$ is inconsistent" is to say "$F$ proves a contradiction", and from a contradiction you can prove anything at all, including $0 = 1$. So the statements "$F$ is inconsistent" and "$F \vdash 0 = 1$" are equivalent. What I mean is, the fact that we're now talking about a contradiction instead of consistency shouldn't be at all surprising here - they're the same thing.

As for which contradiction can be proven from a (sufficiently strong) sound theory that proves itself consistent: Any theory strong enough to handle arithmetic can prove Godel's Incompleteness Theorem. So this theory (let's call it $T$) "knows" that a sufficiently strong consistent theory cannot prove its own consistency. So $T$ proves that if $T$ is consistent, then $T$ cannot prove its own consistency. But if $T$ does prove its own consistency, it can prove that - it just has to supply the proof. So we have $T \vdash (Con(T) \implies T \nvdash Con(T))$ and $T \vdash T \vdash Con(T)$. So $T \vdash T \nvdash Con(T)$, because $T$ "knows" how implications work. Therefore $T \vdash (T \vdash Con(T) \wedge T \nvdash Con(T))$. That's a contradiction.

EDIT: The statement that $T$ "'knows' that a sufficiently strong consistent theory cannot prove its own consistency" isn't the First Incompleteness Theorem, it's the second. The Second Incompleteness Theorem states that if $T$ is "sufficiently strong" and consistent, then $T \nvdash Con(T)$. The interesting thing is that 2nd Incompleteness can be proven inside $PA$, so any sufficiently strong $T$ can actually prove that 2nd Incompleteness is true. The point is that if $T$ also proves that it itself is consistent, then it concludes that 2nd Incompleteness means it can't prove itself consistent.

  • Sorry but your answer is wrong. Specifically, your second paragraph. A counter-example: PA cannot prove that PA cannot prove Con(PA), unless PA itself is inconsistent! – user21820 Feb 04 '17 at 03:03
  • @user21820 Quite correct, thanks for pointing that out! I've made a minor edit that should address your concern. – Reese Johnston Feb 04 '17 at 03:39
  • I'm not quite sure now what you mean by "it can also prove that it itself is sound" since soundness is stronger than consistency. Your last few sentences are also arranged in a seemingly not logical fashion. Godel's incompleteness theorem gives your first claim $T \vdash (Con(T) \to T \nvdash Con(T))$, and (D3) gives your second claim $T \vdash ( T \vdash Con(T) )$. But if $T \vdash Con(T)$ then you simply get $T \vdash ( T \nvdash Con(T) )$ by ordinary modus ponens. – user21820 Feb 04 '17 at 03:49
  • Also you may be interested in looking at my post for the full proof of the incompleteness theorems via Lob's theorem, which is very elegant in my opinion. – user21820 Feb 04 '17 at 04:12
  • @user21820 Soundness is only stronger than consistency when evaluated externally. As far as $T$ is concerned, all it means for $T$ to be sound is "all of the axioms of $T$ are true", which $T$ can indeed prove. I only include it because OP referenced soundness; the theorem doesn't need it. And I don't understand your second complaint; you've written the same sentences I did, in almost exactly the same order, with exactly the same justifications. The only difference I see is that you're repeating $T \vdash Con(T)$ to justify the final step, whereas I just assumed the reader would recall it. – Reese Johnston Feb 04 '17 at 04:26
  • If that's your definition of internal soundness, then I can't disagree with your statement if you specify it clearly in your post, but it conflicts with the standard notion of soundness. For example, if ZF is consistent then ZF does not prove that ZF is sound. For the second issue, I meant that your justification of "T knows how implications work" is (D2), which is not the right reason for that step, namely just modus ponens. – user21820 Feb 04 '17 at 04:43
  • And by the way, $\Rightarrow$ gives "$\Rightarrow$", which is the 'right' version of the logical-implication symbol for use as a binary connective. =) – user21820 Feb 04 '17 at 04:52
  • @user21820 And as for the "$T$ knows how implications work" line: You seem to be assuming that I'm working in some sort of provability logic, which is not standard for conversations about Godel's Incompleteness. What "$T$ knows how implications work" means is that "$T$ knows that, given $A \implies B$ and $A$, $B$ follows". I.e., "$T$ knows modus ponens". – Reese Johnston Feb 04 '17 at 05:15
  • @user21820 But you are correct about the soundness issue - fortunately, it is not relevant to the question. Incompleteness doesn't require soundness. – Reese Johnston Feb 04 '17 at 05:31
  • Okay so can you please edit your answer to specify clearly your meaning instead of saying "It can also prove that it itself is sound."? Thanks. – user21820 Feb 04 '17 at 05:45
  • Could you please clarify why your opening paragraph begins "No...", as it appears to agree with my post? Additionally, when you say, "this theory (let's call it T) "knows" that a sufficiently strong consistent theory cannot prove its own consistency," I think I've missed something about the 1IT, so could you please edit in precisely what about the 1st incompleteness theorem produces this conclusion? – redroid Feb 05 '17 at 21:00
  • @redroid I interpreted your post as drawing a distinction between inconsistency and proving a contradiction - since these are the same concept, there is no such distinction, hence the "No...". As for the second part: this isn't an immediate consequence of 1IT. I didn't interpret your question as asking for a proof of 2IT, so I am not supplying one; only the contradiction that can be proven if 2IT were to fail. Note that the proof of 2IT can be done inside $T$ if $T$ is sufficiently strong; that's where the "[$T$] "knows" that..." observation comes from. – Reese Johnston Feb 05 '17 at 21:23
  • @redroid If you want a proof of 2IT, look at user21820's answer (though that's written in provability logic, which you may not be familiar with) or any introductory logic textbook, or just Wikipedia. Personally I recommend Kunen's Foundations of Mathematics as a resource. – Reese Johnston Feb 05 '17 at 21:25
  • @redroid: As Reese said, my answer contains a proof using provability logic, so you would have to establish the provability conditions for your system. They are not hard but just tedious, once you know of Godel's β-function. This proof has the advantage of being constructive and so giving a computable way to get a proof of contradiction if $S$ proves $\text{Con}(S)$. In contrast, my linked post gives a non-constructive proof via a computability argument, so you cannot extract a proof of contradiction from it, but it shows that the β-function is only a crucial part for weak systems like PA. – user21820 Feb 14 '17 at 12:34
  • @redroid: More precisely, the computability based proof shows that any system, that is strong enough to prove "$P$ halts on $X$" when a given program (Turing machine equivalent) $P$ actually halts on a given input $X$, is also essentially incomplete. Surprisingly little is needed for that; see this paper that proves essential incompleteness of a very weak theory of contatenation (intended to be of binary strings) without using Godel coding (so no Chinese Remainder Theorem needed!) – user21820 Feb 14 '17 at 12:55
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Take any useful formal system $S$, namely one that has decidable proof validity and uniformly interprets arithmetic (see the latter section of this post for the precise definition). $ \def\eq{\leftrightarrow} \def\box{\square} $

Then $S$ satisfies the Hilbert-Bernays provability conditions and the fixed point theorem (see the linked post), and hence we have both the internal and external forms of Lob's theorem (which arises from mimicking Curry's paradox in provability logic):

(L*) If $S \vdash □ P \to P$ then $S \vdash P$.

(L) $S \vdash □ ( □ P \to P ) \to □ P$.

From these applied to $P = \bot$ we immediately get Godel's second incompleteness theorem (in both external and internal form):

(GI*) If $S \nvdash \bot$ then $S \nvdash \neg □ \bot$.

(GI) $S \vdash \neg □ \bot \to \neg □ \neg □ \bot$.

To see where the contradiction comes from you can either trace through the proof of Lob's theorem and its instantiation to get the (external) first incompleteness theorem, or you can instantiate the proof from the beginning to get:


Let $P$ be a sentence such that $S \vdash P \eq \neg \box P$.

If $S \vdash \neg \box \bot$:

  Within $S$:

    $P \to \neg \box P$.   [from definition of $P$]

    $\box P \to \box \neg \box P$.   [by (D2)]

    If $\box P$:

      $\box \neg \box P$.

      $\box \box P$.   [by (D3) on last assumption]

      $\box \bot$.   [by (D2)]

      $\bot$.   [by outer assumption]

    Therefore $\neg \box P$.

    $P$.   [from definition of $P$]

    $\box P$.   [by (D1)]

    $\bot$.

  Therefore $S \vdash \bot$.


It is relatively easy to internalize the above proof of (GI*) within $S$ itself, which would give the internal form (GI).

Note also that this is for the usual definition of $\text{Con}(S) \equiv \neg \box_S \bot$. (There are possible alternatives.)

user21820
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  • I have some problems with understanding syntax. Can you add a reference for that? – pqnet Dec 28 '18 at 11:50
  • @pqnet: Reference for what specifically? Have you read and understood the wikipedia article I linked to? – user21820 Dec 29 '18 at 16:07
  • Not exactly. I understood from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provability_logic that $□$ means "it is provable that" but still the meaning of $\vdash$ and $\bot$ are unclear, i assume $\neg$ is logical negation, I don't understand what the subscript mean in $□_S$ – pqnet Dec 30 '18 at 13:38
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    @pqnet: Hmm if you don't know what "¬" and "⊢" mean, then I'm afraid that you're going to have to learn basic first-order logic before you go anywhere near the incompleteness theorems. You can try Hannes' notes linked from this post, which should be enough if you are a mathematics major. If you don't have that kind of background, find me in this chat-room. – user21820 Dec 30 '18 at 15:57
  • As for notation, "$⬜_S$ was defined in the other post I linked to, and is the same notation in Peter Smith's "Godel without tears" (linked from the same post). Peter's book assumes you already have complete grasp of first-order logic up to the semantic-completeness and compactness theorems, but it is also the first book I learnt the conventional proof of Godel's theorems from. In my opinion, after the basics it may be more enlightening to take a more general yet shorter route as in this post, which explains the crux of incompleteness. – user21820 Dec 30 '18 at 16:16