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Zermelo-Frankel axiomatization of set theory was introduced as "solution" of resolving the many antinomies (among which Russell's paradox is probably the most famous) that plagued Cantor's naive set theory.

While ZF takes care of the old paradoxes, is it known whether ZF itself is paradox free ? Could, in principle, someone come up with a "new" paradox that would wreck havoc in ZF, the same way "old" paradoxes wrecked havoc in the naive set theory?

Markus
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  • I might be wrong here, but if one could prove that ZF is consistent then that would contradict Godel's second incompleteness theorem (which is a theorem in ZF), therefore ZF would be inconsistent. – vap Oct 01 '16 at 21:16
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    "Paradox" is not a mathematical term. What you probably want to know is whether ZF is consistent, which means that every time a statement is true then its negation is false. – Anon Oct 01 '16 at 21:17
  • @McFry Yes, I guess that is what I am asking :). Could, in theory, ZF be inconsistent the same way naive set theory was? – Markus Oct 01 '16 at 21:20
  • As McFry said ZF is proved to be consistent in "higher" formal systems, that's why I thought you wanted a proof "inside" ZF. – vap Oct 01 '16 at 21:23
  • I think I do want a proof "inside" ZF, the same way Russell's paradox was "inside" naive set theory. So what are you saying is that, from Godel's second theorem, the consistency of ZF cannot be proved or disproved inside ZF? – Markus Oct 01 '16 at 21:28
  • Markus: Yes that is what I'm saying. – vap Oct 01 '16 at 21:37
  • @vap That's not quite right, actually. Surprisingly, ZF could be consistent and yet prove its own inconsistency! The only thing Goedel's Second tells us is that if ZF is consistent, it doesn't prove its own consistency. (Rosser's improvement gives a specific sentence $\varphi$ which ZF neither proves nor disproves, unless ZF is inconsistent, but this sentence is more complicated than the Goedel sentence "ZF is consistent"; basically the Rosser sentence says (via the Diagonal Lemma) "For any proof of me there is a shorter disproof of me".) Of course, we all agree that this would be weird. – Noah Schweber Oct 01 '16 at 21:47

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Yes, it is conceivable that there is a paradox in ZF. Indeed, by Godel's second incompleteness theorem, if ZF proves that ZF is consistent, then ZF is inconsistent! (Perhaps surprisingly, it is possible that ZF proves "ZF is inconsistent," and yet ZF is consistent!)


Now here's a very brief argument for the proposition "We'll never be certain that ZF is consistent": Since ZF cannot prove its own consistency (unless it is consistent), any proof of the consistency of ZF would have to take place in a stronger theory. This implies that we can basically never be certain that ZF is consistent: in order to believe a proposed proof that ZF is consistent, we would already have to believe that more-than-ZF is consistent in the first place.

Note that we don't need truth here, merely consistency: if ZF is inconsistent, then any theory proving the consistency of ZF must also be inconsistent, since that theory would be able to prove both "ZF is consistent" and "ZF is inconsistent" (by copying the assumed inconsistency in ZF).

But that argument's not exactly accurate! It is true that (assuming ZF is consistent) any proof of the consistency of ZF has to take place in some theory $T$ which is not a subtheory of ZF; however, $T$ itself might not contain ZF, either! $T$ and ZF could be incomparable theories. So this raises an interesting question:

Can ZF be proved consistent from a theory $T$, which is "uncontroversially consistent"?

OK, ignore for a second the phrase "uncontroversially consistent", which is pretty meaningless and really just pushes the problem back one step. There is an interesting idea here:

  • Take some very weak theory which we all agree is consistent (say, $I\Sigma_1$ - this is essentially a very weak subtheory of arithmetic).

  • Now, find some new axiom $\psi$ which, when added to $I\Sigma_1$, proves that ZF is consistent.

  • Finally, make an argument for the "obvious" truth of $\psi$.

This was historically the motivation for Gentzen's idea of proof-theoretic ordinals. The idea is as follows. Suppose we want to argue that a theory $S$ is consistent. Very vaguely, we can define a linear order $\alpha$, and show that the statement "$\alpha$ is a well-ordering", when added to $I\Sigma_1$, lets us prove (usually via some form of cut elimination) that $S$ is consistent. This statement, $\psi$, is then the uncontroversial axiom we're looking for . . .

. . . assuming we can look at $\varphi$ and say, "Yep, the linear order $L$ which $\varphi$ defines is obviously a well-ordering." So it all comes down to how confident we are that certain descriptions of linear orders actually correspond to well-orderings.

(Note: this is merely one kind of ordinal analysis which can be performed, the "$\Pi^1_1$ analysis" if I have my terminology straight. There are other analyses which are more useful in various different contexts. For simplicity, I'm sticking with this one.)

For example, Gentzen's original result was that the proof-theoretic ordinal of $PA$ is $$\epsilon_0=\omega^{\omega^{\omega^{...}}};$$ if you believe that's an ordinal, then you should believe that $PA$ is consistent. Now, $\epsilon_0$ is big, but with a bit of effort it's not too hard to get a good picture of what it looks like and an understanding of why it's well-founded. So this looks promising, right?

Well, I don't know about that. Personally, I already had more faith in the claim "$PA$ is consistent" than I did in the claim "$\epsilon_0$ is well-founded," and this discrepancy only gets worse as the theories in question get stronger (and in particular we're galaxies away from computing the proof-theoretic ordinal of ZF). Still, one's mileage may vary.

Noah Schweber
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  • As an aside, re: my criticism of ordinal analysis as a means of convincing ourselves of the consistency of a theory: note that this is not the only reason to care about ordinal analysis! Personally, I think that we learn a lot by understanding the various proof-theoretic ordinals (and other ordinals) attached to theories of interest. So I don't mean to imply that ordinal analysis is uninteresting, or even not foundationally important; merely that this one aspect of it is limited. – Noah Schweber Oct 01 '16 at 21:44
  • How could ZF prove its inconsistency? – vap Oct 01 '16 at 21:47
  • @vap Well, it isn't known that it does, and indeed we hope it doesn't. :) But in principle, it could, and that would not mean that ZF is inconsistent. (It would, though, mean that ZF is wrong - either ZF isn't actually inconsistent, in which case it's wrong about its own inconsistency, or it is inconsistent, in which case it proves "every set is empty", which is wrong - and this would be bad.) – Noah Schweber Oct 01 '16 at 21:48
  • @NoahSchweber What would be the consequences for mathematics as a whole if ZF proved its inconsistency? Is the consistency of ZF an implicit assumption in all other fields of mathematics? – Markus Oct 01 '16 at 21:53
  • @vap Indeed, this weird possibility is a consequence of Goedel's Incompleteness Theorem! Suppose ZF is consistent; I claim ZF+"ZF is inconsistent" is also consistent. Proof: assume otherwise. By the Completeness Theorem (no, that's not a typo, the two don't contradict each other despite the names; and it's also due to Goedel!), we'd have that ZF proves "ZF is consistent". Why? Well, since ZF+"ZF is inconsistent" is inconsistent, we have that every model of ZF satisfies "ZF is consistent." So we've shown ZF proves "ZF is consistent," but then by Incompleteness ZF must be inconsistent. :P – Noah Schweber Oct 01 '16 at 21:53
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    @Markus This has been addressed elsewhere on this network - see http://mathoverflow.net/questions/40920/what-if-current-foundations-of-mathematics-are-inconsistent in particular, but there's other instances too (google "ZF inconsistency"). Basically, the short answer is: ZF is overkill! The rest of mathematics doesn't really use all of ZF, indeed only tiny fragments are generally relevant. ZF could be inconsistent, and most of mathematics would be unaffected. (BTW, the study of what axioms are actually needed for various theorems has a name - reverse mathematics.) – Noah Schweber Oct 01 '16 at 21:55
  • @vap Addressing your most recent (deleted?) comment, the point is that a proof of "There is a contradiction in ZF" might be nonconstructive - it might not actually exhibit a contradiction! So maybe ZF proves via some crazy set-and-model-theoretic shenanigans that ZF must be inconsistent, but this argument doesn't actually cook up a contradiction. Then it's possible that what's really going on is that the axioms of ZF, while not quite contradictory, are broken in the sense that they prove false statements about natural numbers (cf. also "$\omega$-consistency" versus "consistency"). – Noah Schweber Oct 01 '16 at 21:57
  • Noah: can you clarify the sentence "Well, since ZF+'ZF is inconsistent' is inconsistent, we have that every model of ZF satisfies 'ZF is consistent'"? Thanks a lot. – vap Oct 01 '16 at 22:13
  • @vap If a theory $S$ is inconsistent, it has no model (this is the Soundness Theorem, the easy half of the Completeness Theorem). So suppose ZF+'ZF is inconsistent' is inconsistent. That means that every model of ZF, is not a model of 'ZF is inconsistent'! Which is to say, every model of ZF satisfies 'ZF is consistent.' Does this help? (Also, I just realized that for completeness - heh - I should probably note: let $T$ denote the theory "ZF+'ZF is inconsistent'". Then $T$ proves "$T$ is inconsistent", yet is consistent; so is an example of the sort of thing you were asking about.) – Noah Schweber Oct 01 '16 at 22:15
  • Noah: yes, cool use of the completeness theorem!Thanks. – vap Oct 01 '16 at 22:33