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I heard that the P vs NP question is equivalent to a $\Pi_2^0$ sentence, and that the Riemann hypothesis is equivalent to a $\Pi_1^0$ sentence. Many known mathematical theorems state that some specific $\Pi_2^0$ sentence is actually true, take Goodstein's theorem for example. The related Paris-Harrington theorem states that the strengthened finite Ramsey theorem (another $\Pi_2^0$ sentence) implies the consistency of Peano arithmetic, which is equivalent to a $\Pi_1^0$ sentence.

I wonder whether there could be a sort of progress towards a challenging conjecture by showing it equivalent to a $\Pi_1^0$ sentence. The examples above indicate that such equivalence might only hold under additional assumptions, like that $\epsilon_0$ is well ordered.


The following comment made me wonder about the meaning of such equivalences:

"Equivalent" in what sense? Since the model existence theorem is true, it is equivalent to lots of $\Pi_1^0$ sentences - for example, the sentence asserting that the Turing machine which on any input halts automatically, halts on input zero. Presumably, you mean equivalent over some base theory - but then you need to specify that theory! – Noah Schweber Mar 12 at 5:39

The corresponding question used the following definition:

DEFINITION 4.4. A $\Pi_1^0$ sentence is a sentence asserting that some given Turing machine never halts at the empty input tape. A $\Pi_2^0$ sentence is a sentence asserting that some given Turing machine halts at every input tape.


Edit This is a serious question about provable $\Pi_2^0$ sentences. The rather random examples of $\Pi_2^0$ sentences (P vs. NP, Goodstein's theorem, and the strengthened finite Ramsey theorem) given in the question are enormous statements, and I feel the only way how such enormous statements can be true is by being provable. But being provable of course means being provable in some specific formal theory, and the consistency of such a theory is equivalent to a $\Pi_1^0$ sentence. But the examples also show a connection to ordinal numbers, and ordinal numbers are used to measure the proof strength of certain formal theories. I had hoped that somebody would be able to explain whether there is a connection between ordinal numbers and $\Pi_k^0$ sentences.

The answers and comments focused on the meaning of "equivalent" in this context. I would have no problem with interpreting this as equivalent over PA (or rather ACA0), if a base theory must be specified. Also PRA would be fine for me, if it helps (or simplifies) explaining the connection to ordinal numbers. The intended informal meaning of "equivalent" in this context is probably closer related to the existence of Turing reductions between the two statements, but I admit that one also needs to prove that a given reduction indeed works as claimed, and hence a base theory is still needed, even for this informal definition of "equivalence". But the base theory should not be used to discuss away the existence of Turing machines. They are part of the meta-system, and their (idealized) existence is part of the explicit ontological commitments.

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    It seems like you missed the point to that comment. Unless you specify some special notion of "equivalent", any true sentence is equivalent to any other true sentence. – David C. Ullrich May 02 '16 at 22:32
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    @DavidC.Ullrich If that were true, then the answer to my question should be a resounding YES! But the example of Goodstein's theorem given in the question should make in clear that a $\Pi_2^0$ sentence can be true, without being equivalent to every other true sentence. (I actually hoped that Goodstein's theorem would be equivalent to (or at least imply) the consistency of PA, but I only found such a statement for the related Paris-Harrington theorem.) The case of the model existence theorem is more problematic, because it isn't really a statement about natural numbers. – Thomas Klimpel May 03 '16 at 06:12
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    You are confusing "provable" with "provable in PA". Goodstein's Theorem is a theorem. It has been proved. That means it is equivalent to all true things. Goodstein's theorem is not provable in PA so that means that PA doesn't see the equivalences, it doesn't mean they aren't there though. – James May 04 '16 at 14:23

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The problem is with your notion of logic and truth. Before you even can talk about a sentence, you need to specify your language, and before you can talk about whether it is provable or disprovable (or neither), you need to specify the formal system (which must use the same language or larger), and before you can talk about truth, you need to have a model. So simply put all your statements are not well-defined, and that is precisely what is causing you not to understand.

It so happens that all your examples can be expressed as sentences over PA, at least in some sense. What do I mean? Well, for example what does it mean to say that a formal system $T$ is consistent? To even state that, you need to work in a meta-system, because you need to be able to form the collection of all sentences generated by the inference rules of first-order logic from the axioms of $T$ (in some set theory), or at least to state the provability relation (in other meta-systems). A common choice for the meta-system is ZFC or some type theory. This cannot be done directly in PA, and the best you can do is to construct a sentence over PA that you can prove in the meta-system would be true in the standard model $\mathbb{N}$ if and only if PA is consistent (as viewed in the meta-system). We usually denote this sentence by $Con(T)$. Remember, this notion of $Con$ only exists in the meta-system, not $T$! But $Con(T)$ is a sentence over PA.

Let's now check whether you understand the above. We (in the meta-system) shall assume that PA is consistent. So is $Con(PA)$ true? Try answering before looking!

This is a quite meaningless question. You need to specify a model to talk about truth. $Con(PA)$ would be true in the standard model of PA but may not be true in some other models of PA. Our assumption that PA is consistent does not tell us anything directly about the truth value of $Con(PA)$ in all models of PA.

Godel showed essentially that any formal system $T$ that can prove all the sentences that PA can prove (with suitable translation if necessary) cannot prove $Con(T)$ unless $T$ is inconsistent! Note that if $T$ is inconsistent then it proves every sentence, including its negation, and so is useless. If we apply this theorem to PA, we conclude that PA does not prove $Con(PA)$, and hence by the completeness theorem (note that this notion of completeness is totally not the one in the incompleteness theorems) $Con(PA)$ is false in some model of PA.

So although we say that the consistency of a formal system $T$ is expressed by a $Π_1$-sentence over $PA$, always remember that although $T$ is either consistent or not consistent in the meta-system, $Con(T)$ may not have a fixed truth value in the models of PA! There is however a 'consolation' prize; if $T$ is inconsistent then $\neg Con(T)$ would be a $Σ_1$-sentence over $PA$ that is true in the standard model, and hence there is a natural number that witnesses it, which is expressed by a term over PA, and PA is strong enough to prove every true quantifier-free sentence!

Similarly if Goldbach's conjecture (a $Π_1$-sentence over PA) is false (in the standard model of PA), it can be disproven in PA (you can even take the counter-example and run a computer program to verify that it is not the sum of two primes). So if Goldbach's conjecture is independent (neither provable nor disprovable) over PA, then it must be true. Notice that people don't usually mention "the standard model" here simply because this conjecture is about the natural numbers in ZFC, which is the standard model of PA.

Now it should be clear what your examples mean. We say that a conjecture $C$ is equivalent to a sentence $C'$ over PA if and only if $C$ is equivalent to $\mathbb{N} \vDash C'$ (which says "$C'$ is true in $\mathbb{N}$). You may think that this is silly if $C$ is itself a statement about $\mathbb{N}$, since there appears to be no difference between the two notions. But as $Con(PA)$ shows, these two notions can be very different, and this is because $C'$ must be a sentence in the language of PA, so it cannot talk about the domain of quantification itself.

Just for illustration, Goodstein's theorem is proven in ZFC and equivalent (in the above sense) to a sentence that is independent of PA. Now you might object that this is useless, after all if say a conjecture $C$ is stated in ZFC then I can define $C'$ to be $\top$ if $C$ is true (in ZFC) and $\bot$ otherwise. $C'$ would be well-defined in ZFC and indeed $C$ would be equivalent to $C'$ in the above sense. But this is not constructive, in that we want an explicit $C'$ written down, not one that is defined by invoking the law of excluded middle! That is what makes these results interesting, because they actually wrote down (or showed how to write down) such equivalent sentences. Better still, there is sometimes an algorithm to generate these for a whole class of statements. For example there is an program that given any input $V$ that is a program that checks validity of a proof in some formal system $T$ will output a sentence over $PA$ that has the above properties of $Con(T)$.

It is unlikely that showing that something is equivalent to an explicit $Π_1$-sentence over PA will help much to prove or disprove it, since the non-existence of a solution to any given diophantine equation is also a $Π_1$-sentence, and diophantine equations are incredible monsters! (See Fermat's last theorem. and note that exponentiation can be encoded in PA.)

Also, you cannot even refer to the ordinal $ε_0$ without it already being well-ordered, by definition of ordinal. Most of the time people work in ZFC, in which case such ordinals already exist. The interesting question is what ordinals can be proven to exist if you restrict the comprehension axiom (in ZFC) but you add some axiom corresponding to some theorem, such as "PA is consistent" or "Goodstein's theorem is true".

user21820
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  • Thanks for the long explanation. My real problems which are causing me not to understand are probably related to ordinal numbers and ordinal analysis. (However, I haven't mentioned those in the question, but apparently my explicit examples hinted at my problems.) Discussing PA as answer to my question certainly makes sense, because it is clear that I wonder about those connections. The main connection between ZFC and my question is that the consistency of ZFC is equivalent to a $\Pi_1^0$ sentence. Whether ZFC proves a certain well-order is irrelevant, because it might be inconsistent. – Thomas Klimpel May 04 '16 at 17:14
  • @ThomasKlimpel: I don't think your problems have anything to do with ordinals, because all the proofs of equivalence to some sentence over PA are quite direct and do not really involve ordinals. When talking about a formal system we conventionally assume that it has decidable proof validity. Let $T$ be any formal system and $D$ be a program such that $D(x,P)=1$ iff $x$ is a valid proof of $P$. $Con(T)$ can be defined as $\neg \square_T \bot$ where $\square_T P$ says "$\exists x\ ( D(x,P)=1 )$.". Existence of a program execution that accepts can be expanded into a $Σ_1$-statement about strings. – user21820 May 05 '16 at 02:50
  • @ThomasKlimpel: Now as I said in my post we can prove the equivalence of ZFC to a $Π_1$-sentence over PA, but this proof must be done in a meta-system that is strong enough. ZF is the usual choice for the meta-system. So it's not like you get this equivalence in some weak system; you don't. And moreover this equivalence depends on the standard model of PA, not arbitrary models. You cannot think that this thing is language-independent; it is not. The $Π_1$-sentence it is talking about is in the language of PA. – user21820 May 05 '16 at 02:54
  • I studied mathematical logic some years ago. If my problems were really related to my knowledge about formal systems and models, then you should better consider me a hopeless case. If I didn't get it while I was studying it intensively, I'm unlikely to get it now, while trying to think about that material from the Turing machine perspective. Your explanations are nice, only your identification of ZFC with the meta-system is oversimplified, as explained in chapter 7.4 of Ebbinghaus, especially in exercise 7.4.4. The standard model of PA can be defined, but ZFC may not help you for this. – Thomas Klimpel May 06 '16 at 09:06
  • @ThomasKlimpel: You're never a hopeless case if you want to fix it! If there is any specific point in my answer that you don't get, just ask. Or we can discuss in chat if you like. I also didn't oversimplify things; you definitely got your last claim wrong because ZFC |- Con(PA) exactly by proving the existence of a model, which furthermore is what we call the standard model, often referred to as $\mathbb{N}$ or $ω$. – user21820 May 06 '16 at 09:23
  • @ThomasKlimpel: By the way there is nothing wrong with the Turing machine perspective, but note that your meta-system is still something quite strong if it is able to construct undecidable sets, such as the collection of all Turing machines that halt. Most people still use ZFC as the meta-system to analyze Turing machines. You can translate any sentence over PA into an assertion about Turing machines (in your meta-system of choice). Conversely, you can translate the other way too. But for you to prove the translation meaningful your meta-system needs to be strong enough. – user21820 May 06 '16 at 09:33
  • Does your offer to discuss in chat still stands? I read some introductions to ordinal analysis in the meantime, and realized what might go wrong... However, what I learned makes it even more important for me to be able to talk about "equivalences", without everybody telling me immediately that I'm a foul (thereby preventing any discussion about the issues which really confuse me). I added an explanation to my question why I asked it, and how I tried to make sense of "equivalence" in this context now. However, I would like to first clarify the standard model of PA issue (and how ZFC comes in). – Thomas Klimpel May 16 '16 at 14:46
  • @ThomasKlimpel: I'd be happy to. You can invite me to a chat-room now! – user21820 May 16 '16 at 14:52
  • http://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/39852/discussion-between-thomas-klimpel-and-user21820 (I didn't find the option to invite you in the room...) – Thomas Klimpel May 16 '16 at 14:57
  • I slightly disagree with your "spoiler" statement. At least for arithmetic we have a very robust model which is "the standard model", and it is pretty much a synonym when talking about statements in the language of arithmetic that an unqualified "true" is the same as "true in the standard model of Peano". – Asaf Karagila May 17 '16 at 18:04
  • @AsafKaragila: Sorry I don't get what's wrong with my statement. The way I defined Con(PA) meant that it is just some crazy formula over PA, and of course it's true in some models and not true in others. Of course a lot of people drop the qualification "in the standard model" and others who know this convention will understand, but if you read our discussion in the chat you'll see that this precision has cleared up the issue somewhat for Thomas. Also, almost all questions on Math SE about "true but not provable" that I've seen so far are due to this same misunderstanding. – user21820 May 18 '16 at 02:47
  • I agree that this is usually the issue. It's just that this is the accepted convention between experts. Maybe it's confusing to the laymathematician, layscientist, and layperson. Sure. But it's still how experts communicate. So saying that "true" without specifying the model is meaningless should be qualified with this exception. – Asaf Karagila May 18 '16 at 02:50
  • @AsafKaragila: That is why in our chat discussion I purposely made clear when the meta-system MS is talking, and MS believes N |= PA so we could of course define in MS that "φ is true" means "N |= φ" for any arithmetical sentence φ. That's perfectly fine, but I didn't want to clutter my answer with abbreviations unnecessary to grasp the core concepts. Also, outside MS, even if MS is consistent we don't even know whether it is ω-consistent, and if it isn't then even when MS proves "N |= φ" it is somewhat meaningless outside MS because MS doesn't have the right N. – user21820 May 18 '16 at 02:51
  • @AsafKaragila: Okay I'll add a note about the convention. Don't worry =) – user21820 May 18 '16 at 02:52
  • I'm not worried, it's your answer... :-P – Asaf Karagila May 18 '16 at 02:52
  • @AsafKaragila: Wait a minute, I did mention it when talking about Goldbach: Notice that people don't usually mention "the standard model" here simply because this conjecture is about the natural numbers in ZFC, which is the standard model of PA.. Haha was that good enough? – user21820 May 18 '16 at 03:00