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I'm working on question 16 of http://www.austinmohr.com/Work_files/hw4.pdf

I'm confused by why there are 48 elements of order 7. I understand that $n_7 = 8$, but no further.

Mark
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3 Answers3

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In general, if $G$ is a group of order $p^3q$, where $p$ and $q$ are primes such that $p \lt q$, then $G$ is not simple.

Proof: if $Q \in Syl_q(G)$, then $|G:N_G(Q)|=1, p, p^2$ or $p^3$. If $n_q=1$, then $Q$ is normal and we are done. If $n_q=p$, then $|G:N_G(Q)|$ is the smallest prime dividing the order of $G$, and it is well-known that this implies that $N_G(Q) \lhd G$. If $n_q=p^3$, then we can apply a similar counting argument as above: the $p^3$ Sylow $q$-subgroups contain a total of $p^3(q-1)$ elements of order $q$ and hence $G$ contains at most $p^3q-p^3(q-1)=p^3$ elements that do not have order $q$. It follows that a Sylow $p$-subgroup must be normal in this case.

So we are left with the case where $n_q=p^2$. But then $p^2 \equiv 1$ mod $q$. This implies that $q \mid (p-1)(p+1)$ and since $q$ is prime, we get $q \mid p-1$ or $q \mid p+1$. So in any case $q \leq p+1$. Since $p \lt q$, the only possibility is that $p+1=q$. But then $p=2$ and $q=3$, and $|G|=24$. It is well-known (and left as an exercise) that groups of order $24$ are not simple.

Nicky Hekster
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  • Why does the fact that $G$ contains at most $p^3$ elements that don't have order $q$ imply that $G$ is not simple? – Alejandro Bergasa Alonso Nov 30 '20 at 11:15
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    Pick any $P \in Syl_p(G)$, then $|P|=p^3$ and of course $P$ is a subset of all the elements that do not have order $q$. Since the latter has $p^3$ elements, $P$ must be equal to that set. So all the Sylow $p$-subgroups are in fact the same subgroup, and since they are conjugated, the Sylow $p$-subgroup must be normal. Hence $G$ is not simple. – Nicky Hekster Nov 30 '20 at 11:34
  • Could we argue that it is simple so that n2=7, n7=8 so there’s more elements than there are in the group? Contradicting one of them not being equal to 1? – homosapien Oct 25 '22 at 18:28
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We have that $56=2^3\cdot 7$. Then the number of Sylow $7$-subgroups is $1+7k$ , for some $k \geq 0$ and divides $8$. So the number of Sylow $7$-subgroups is either $1$ or $8$. If it is $1$, we are done. So let us assume that it is $8$. Each Sylow $7$-subgroup has order $7$. In a group of prime order every nonidentity element has order $7$. Thus each Sylow $7$-subgroups has $6$ elements of order $7$. Also, they intersec trivially. It follows that there are $8\cdot 6 =48$ elements of order $7$. This leaves only $56-48=8$ elements, wich is the size of one Sylow $2$-subgroup. Thus, there is only room for one o such subgroups. That is, either the Sylow $7$-subgroup or the Sylow $2$-subgroup must be normal.

Hopmaths
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  • Can you please prove how you wrote " Also, they intersect trivially."? –  Sep 19 '21 at 12:20
  • If $g$ is a nonidentity element which lies in the intersection of two of this subgroups, the intersection is itself a subgroup. So must be contain all powers of $g$. In this case, the two subgroups has the same elements. Since we are consider 8 different subgroups, the intersection must be trivial. – Hopmaths Sep 19 '21 at 15:19
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In general, if $G$ is a group of order $pq$, where $p$ and $q$ are (not necessarily different) primes, then $G$ is not simple.

Proof: if $p=q$, then the order of $G$ is a square of a prime and it is well-known that such a group is abelian. But simple abelian groups have prime order. So assume that $p \neq q$. Let $Q \in Syl_q(G)$. If $Q$ is normal we are done. Hence let $Q$ be not normal, that is $N_G(Q) \lt G$. Then, since $Q \subseteq N_G(Q) \subset G$ and $|G:Q|=p$, we see that $Q=N_G(Q)$ and we conclude that $n_q=p$.

Observe that each pair of Sylow $q$-subroups intersect trivially: if $Q, R \in Syl_q(G)$, with $Q \neq R$, then $Q \cap R$ is a subgroup of the group $Q$, which has prime order $q$. By Lagrange, $Q \cap R=1$ or $Q \cap R=Q$. In the latter case we have $Q=Q \cap R \subseteq R$, whence $Q=R$ contradicting the assumption.

Now let us count the number of elements of order $q$: each $Q \in Syl_q(G)$ contains $q-1$ elements of order $q$. Hence, there are in total $n_q(q-1)=p(q-1)$ different elements of order $q$. That leaves $pq-p(q-1)=p$ elements of order $p$. But by Sylow there must be at least one $P \in Syl_p(G)$. So all the elements of order $p$ must form this $P$. Since there are no more $p$ elements to be found it means that there is only one Sylow $p$-subgroup, implying (all Sylow subgroups are conjugate), $P$ is normal. And we are done.

Nicky Hekster
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    But $8$ is not a prime. – Tobias Kildetoft Nov 20 '15 at 11:53
  • @Tobias, you are perfectly right, will correct this. – Nicky Hekster Nov 27 '15 at 21:42
  • @NickyHekster IMPORTANT: There is a perfect question for this answer, it is this: https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/222853/group-of-order-pq-is-not-simple PLEASE take a look, and copy past your answer there, people are going to upvote you and find very useful your contribution, here is not being seen by anyone since you posted it to the wrong question! (props to you for correcting though with the second answer) – Santropedro Jul 12 '17 at 03:42