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So the derivative of $f: x\mapsto f(x)$ is defined by $f':x \mapsto \lim_{h\to0}\dfrac{f(x+h)-f(x)}{\phantom{f}(x+h)\,-\,(x)}$. But is there a way to define $f'$ solely in terms of $f$, without explicit reference to $x$?

mweiss
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Frank Vel
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    Just putting it out there right from the get go before people start doing it: No, defining it by words is not a viable alternative unless you explain how those words translate into a formula without the use of the variable. – Git Gud Feb 11 '15 at 15:26
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    $f'$ refers to the function. Its value at a point $x$ is written $f'(x)$, given by your formula. – Umberto P. Feb 11 '15 at 15:26
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    $f':\mathbb R\to\mathbb R$, $x\mapsto f'(x):=\lim_{h\to 0}\frac{f(x+h)-f(x)}{h}$ – Carlos Eugenio Thompson Pinzón Feb 11 '15 at 15:28
  • @CarlosEugenioThompsonPinzón Though bounded, you're using variables. The OP doesn't want this. – Git Gud Feb 11 '15 at 15:29
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    Hint: The first incorrect use of terminology in the question is to mention "the derivative of $f(x)$". – Did Feb 11 '15 at 15:29
  • @Did I was referring to the function $f$ with the variable $x$ There is not really an unambiguous way to do this. – Frank Vel Feb 11 '15 at 15:34
  • @GitGud, I know. My point is that $f'$ is just the function generated by point-wise calculating $f'(x)$ in each point $x$. At least whenever $f$ is derivable in $x$. I might further declare a derivate operator but that does not define the derivative of a function. – Carlos Eugenio Thompson Pinzón Feb 11 '15 at 15:35
  • @fvel But the concept of function doesn't depend on the concept of variable, a function is a function. If you somehow make it so that the concept of function is variable dependent, then there's no hope of defining the derivative without it also being variable dependent. – Git Gud Feb 11 '15 at 15:36
  • @GitGud I was referring to Did's statement that $f(x)$ cannot represent a function. It can, and it that case it's variable dependent on the variable $x$. But of course what I'd want is if there is a definition of $f'$ that isn't variable dependent. – Frank Vel Feb 11 '15 at 15:39
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    @fvel It can if you use an uncommon definition of function, but like I said. If you do, then there's no hope of defining the derivative variable-independently because of the very definition of function you're using. – Git Gud Feb 11 '15 at 15:41
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    Sorry but for a real-valued function $f$ defined on the real line and for some real number $x$, $f(x)$ is a number, not a function. What you mean by "the function $f$ with the variable $x$" is unclear but, logically, this would be the couple $(f,x)$, an element of $\mathbb R^\mathbb R\times\mathbb R$. – Did Feb 11 '15 at 15:53
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    I see that you modified the question to introduce the object $f_x: x\mapsto f(x)$. This is a monstrosity. Sooner or later, you should come to the conclusion that the objects $f:x\mapsto f(x)$ and $f:u\mapsto f(u)$ and $f:\omega\mapsto f(\omega)$ are all exactly the same. – Did Feb 11 '15 at 15:56
  • Maybe Differential Fields, with the operator $D$ is what you're looking for. – pshmath0 Feb 11 '15 at 15:56
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    That notation is asking for trouble as it often means $f_x = \frac{\partial f}{\partial x}$. – mvw Feb 11 '15 at 16:16
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    I've tried to edit the question to eliminate those superfluous (and problematic) subscripts and clarify what the OP is asking. If I have misinterpreted the question, please revert. – mweiss Feb 11 '15 at 17:19
  • @mweiss Thanks, I think my attempt of making it clear made me less clear, but that is how I meant to express the question. – Frank Vel Feb 11 '15 at 17:24
  • Could those who voted to close please take a look at the edited question and reconsider whether this question needs to be closed? – mweiss Feb 11 '15 at 18:12

4 Answers4

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Here's an attempt. For any $h \in \mathbb{R}$, we define a function $\tau_h$ by $\tau_h(x)=x+h$. (Think of $\tau_h$ as "translation by $h$", if you like.) (Edit: If you don't like the explicit use of variables in the definition of $\tau_h$, you can define $\tau_h = id +\hat{h}$, where $id$ denotes the identity function and $\hat{h}$ denotes the constant function with value $h$.) Now for any function $f$ and any real $h$ we can define a difference quotient as $$\Delta_h(f)=\frac{ f \circ \tau_h - f}{h}$$

Note that $\Delta_h(f)$ is a function defined without explicit reference to variables (although it does of course require an explicit reference to the parameter $h$).

Now to finish the story we can define $f' = \lim_{h \to 0} \Delta_h(f)$, where the limit here is understood in the sense of pointwise-convergence.

Edited to add: One nice advantage of this formulation is that it lends itself naturally to generalizations. Let $\sigma = \{\sigma_h\}_{h \in \mathbb{R}}$ be any parametrized family of functions $\sigma_h: \mathbb{R} \to \mathbb{R}$. Then we can define difference quotients relative to $\sigma_h$ as $$\Delta_h^{\sigma}(f)=\frac{ f \circ \sigma_h - f}{h}$$ and then define the "derivative of $f$ relative to $\sigma$" as $f^{\sigma} = \lim_{h \to 0} \Delta_h^{\sigma}(f)$. In this notation, the usual derivative $f'$ is just $f^{\tau}$, where $\tau = \{\tau_h\}_{h \in \mathbb{R}} $ is the family of translations defined earlier.

mweiss
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    But the variable hides in the background, in the definition of $\tau_h$. – Git Gud Feb 11 '15 at 15:47
  • How exactly do you define subtraction by the function $f$. – Frank Vel Feb 11 '15 at 15:51
  • @fvel Sorry to ask you this but do you mean the question in your last comment seriously? – Did Feb 11 '15 at 16:18
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    I am assuming that you are working with a collection of functions that forms an $\mathbb{R}$-algebra: that is, that addition, subtraction, and multiplication of functions is well-defined, as is scalar multiplication (i.e. multiplication of a function by a constant). – mweiss Feb 11 '15 at 16:24
  • @GitGud, does my latest edit address your comment? – mweiss Feb 11 '15 at 17:10
  • @mweiss I don't think so. How would you define the translations avoiding variables? – Git Gud Feb 11 '15 at 17:14
  • @GitGud See my most recent edit (in the first paragraph, not the last). – mweiss Feb 11 '15 at 17:15
  • @mweiss OK, read it now. How do you define the 'constant function' or the identity? Note this comment of mine. – Git Gud Feb 11 '15 at 17:21
  • @GitGud Well, you could use the "set of ordered pairs" approach I proposed in http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/1120966/how-do-i-specify-a-function-without-a-defined-argument/1143830#1143830. But my editorial commentary in that answer applies here as well. – mweiss Feb 11 '15 at 17:30
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Here's another (purely algebraic) attempt, taking a different approach entirely.

Begin by choosing some collection $\mathfrak{F}$ of well-behaved functions (for example, all polynomials with real coefficients, or all functions that can be represented by Taylor series). Then we define a derivative on $\mathfrak{F}$ to be a linear map $\Delta:\mathfrak{F} \to \mathfrak{F}$ satisfying $$\Delta(id) = \hat{1}$$ $$\Delta(fg) = f \Delta(g) + g \Delta(f)$$

(here $id$ denotes the identity function and $\hat{1}$ denotes the constant function $\hat{1}: x \mapsto 1$).

It is not too hard to show that these conditions force $\Delta$ to behave as desired for all polynomials. If we also add some additional conditions about convergence, then we can also prove that $\Delta$ behaves as desired for "friendly" non-polynomial functions like trigonometric and exponential functions (and really any function that can be represented by a Taylor series). I am not sure how far this can be pushed; in particular, I'm not sure if there's a way to make sure that $\Delta$ behaves as desired for a non-analytic but smooth function.

mweiss
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Actually if $g$ is the derivative of $f$, they are related by $$ g = f' $$ where $'$ is interpreted as the operation of taking the derivative, while you seem to use $f'$ as a different name for $g$ primary.

That operator view style shows up in rules like $$ (fg)' = f'g + fg' $$ and so on.

Depending on the properties of $f$ one might think of many ways to define the differentiation operation by its action on the representation of $f$, independent of a specific argument variable, like:

$$ f = \sin \Rightarrow f' = \cos \\ f = \mbox{id}^n \Rightarrow f' = n\, \mbox{id}^{n-1} \\ f = (a_n) \Rightarrow f' = ( (n+1) a_{n+1} ) \\ f' = \mathcal{F}^{-1} \left\{ 2\pi i\, \mbox{id } \mathcal{F}\, \left\{ f \right\} \right\} \\ $$

mvw
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Note your definition of $f'$ has an argument-you wrote it as $f'(x)$, which is correct. You can apply the same definition: $$f''(x) = \lim_{h\to0}\dfrac{f'(x+h)-f'(x)}{\phantom{f}(x+h)\,-\,(x)}$$ If you want it in terms of $f$, you can substitute in and have $$f''(x) = \lim_{h\to0}\dfrac{f(x+2h)-2f(x+h)+f(x)}{\phantom{f}((x+h)\,-\,(x))^2}$$

Ross Millikan
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    I think you missed the point of the question. This is how I interpret it: given $f$, define $f'$ without ever mentioning variables. – Git Gud Feb 11 '15 at 15:28
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    Actually $f'$ is NOT a shorthand and $f'(x)$ is NOT a function and to write $f'(x)$ when $f'$ is meant is a clear abuse of notation for which I can see no honorable justification. – Did Feb 11 '15 at 15:28