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As we know up to 1871 ancestors of nowadays Germans lived in different states. How did they call themselves in those times? How did Germans call themselves in the 18th century? Did they call themselves Deutsche or use names derived from names of states like Prussians, Bavarians, Saxonians, et cetera? When did Germans begin to call themselves Deutsche en masse?

Björn Friedrich
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AndrewV
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  • related: https://german.stackexchange.com/q/2053/1487 – Hubert Schölnast Jul 24 '17 at 11:17
  • actually it is answered there: https://german.stackexchange.com/a/2336/23 – Takkat Jul 24 '17 at 11:26
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    This question has been cross-posted on History SE https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/39131/when-did-germans-begin-to-call-themselves-deutsche. It should be closed/removed from one site or the other. – Tom Au Jul 24 '17 at 16:32
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    I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it has also been posted to History SE and is a better fit there. – Carsten S Jul 24 '17 at 16:51

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Very generally, before the foundation of a common country, Germans still called themselves "Deutsche" and not "Bayer", "Schwabe" or "Rheinländer".

The common thing before the common country was the language - And the denomination of being "Deutscher" related exactly to that and maybe was much wider than it was after the foundation of the common country - German-speaking people in Bohemia, Denmark, even Russia would have referred to themselves as "deutsch".

Still today, the notation of talking German rather than being a citizen of Deutschland might refer to denominations in other countries - "Deutschschweiz", "Russlanddeutscher", even "Pennsylvania Dutch",... and it is not always entirely clear whether the denomination refers to language, descent or citizenship. Which wouldn't necessarily mean that Austrians, for example, would appreciate being called "Deutscher", on the contrary.

tofro
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  • @AndrewV I'm not sure what "common, uneducated" would mean in relation to consequences on your self-conscience regarding language, descent and nationality. A similar question would be "who is English". Only people living in England? Welshmen? Scots? People of native descent on the British Virgin Islands? Or People of English descent living in the U.S? – tofro Jul 24 '17 at 11:03
  • @tofro. How would you know today how Andrew's "common, uneducated" people would have called themselves? I am thinking of my ancestors in some agriculture-only villages in Southern Germany. I cannot know for sure, but I believe if one asked them: "Wo kommst du her? Welche Sprache sprichst du?", the answer would have been "I bee a Schwôôb, I schwätz schwäbisch" (I am a Swabian, I speak Swabian). I can hardly imagine a situation where these people would have said "I bee a Deitschr", even if they met a person from France, which would have helped to establish the "national" contrast... – Christian Geiselmann Jul 24 '17 at 11:30
  • Let me cite Wiki: "Today, the Swabian, Bavarian, Saxon and Cologne dialects in their most pure forms are estimated to be 40% mutually intelligible with modern Standard German". 2) It is interesting how educated German people from different "German" states called each other in 18 century?
    • – AndrewV Jul 24 '17 at 11:44
  • @Andrew Is this a statement of yours, or a question? – Christian Geiselmann Jul 24 '17 at 11:51
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    I really doubt the reliability, even the sensefulness of that Wikipedia statement about "40 per cent mutual intelligibility". First, this is often a one-way thing: a speaker of dialects usually will not have a problem understanding a standard German utterance, just because he/she is used to it by practicising (reading, media consumption, school...), but that's not so the other way round. Second, it fully depends on a person's training in using (actively or passively) various languages and dialects. A general statement like in Wikipedia seems nonsensical to me. – Christian Geiselmann Jul 24 '17 at 11:55
  • @ Christian it is a statement and a question. Definitely, today all Germans living in Germany know Standard German, so 40% mutual intelligibility is estimation based on vocabulary. – AndrewV Jul 24 '17 at 12:33
  • @Andrew "Vocabulary" says little about intelligibility. Dialects may use specific, different words (as "Auubäddl" for "Maulwurf" in some varieties of Swabian), but mostly they have simply very different pronunciation ("Schdurgert" for "Stuttgart", "uff Minga" for "nach München"). I doubt intelligibility of these things for the (virtual) ordinary speaker of the standard language. Unless, of course, he or she is acquainted with the particular pronuncation and vowel transformation patterns. – Christian Geiselmann Jul 24 '17 at 13:35
  • When looking back into my own family history, everyone I know always spoke a strong dialect, and even with 40% unintelligibility (which I strictly doubt, as soon as you get someone doesn't get you, you're "moving to common grounds") everyone would have strongly objected on any claims of "us or them not being German" because of their language. The others were simply "speaking German differently" – tofro Jul 24 '17 at 14:51