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I’ve watched the Inglourious Basterds movie. In the bar scene the English spy is ordering three beers and held his three fingers up and by this giving himself away.

The English spy orders three beers with a gesture showing three fingers: index, middle and ring

Is it true in the real life? When the natives count on fingers do they start from the thumb?

unor
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optim1st
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    Actually, this three-finger gesture is more difficult than the Vulcan greeting for me – Hagen von Eitzen Aug 01 '15 at 11:05
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    For people interested in this scene, here’s IMDb’s FAQ about it. – unor Aug 01 '15 at 13:55
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    Ha, I never thought that anybody would do it any other way.. - live and learn :-) – TaW Aug 01 '15 at 17:10
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    @TaW I always use the thumb to represent 5 when counting, so I can count to 9 on one hand. (.|...) (.||..) (.|||.) (.||||) (....) (|...) (||..) (|||.) (_||||) – AJMansfield Aug 03 '15 at 02:14
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    @AJMansfield You should be able to count to 31 on one hand. (|....), (.|...), (||...), (..|..). Of course 4 gets you in trouble... I find 11, 13 and 21 to be the hardest. – Joel Aug 03 '15 at 08:07
  • @Joel I know, but that is harder mentally and physically – AJMansfield Aug 03 '15 at 11:07
  • This extends to most of continental Europe, actually. Once again, the English and Americans are the odd guys in the bunch :) Even the eastern Slavs and the Chinese count from the thumb, albeit slightly differently (counting to ten on one hand, for example - certainly not my case, so I can't elaborate). Signalling three like this feels incredibly awkward - it's definitely something most people will notice and not brush away. Instead of thinking "huh, a foreigner", it's like a glaring "why the weird gesture?". – Luaan Aug 03 '15 at 11:51
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    when I watched the movie (in Canada) I immediately knew that the british spy was discovered. Nobody in Germany uses that gesture. I disagree about the Chinese though. My chinese coworkers have a way more sophisticated system to count. They are able to show all numbers from 1 to 10 on one hand. It's a combination of the numbers of fingers and their shapes (hooks, tips tapped etc). Some cultures start counting with the pinkey finger bend and work their way to the thumb that way. – Steffen Roller Aug 04 '15 at 01:10
  • @AJMansfield I reckon you usually have to declare thumbs=5 beforehand? Or is that some expected configuration in your environment? Or do you only use this way for yourself and not for public interaction? – hiergiltdiestfu Aug 05 '15 at 13:53
  • @hiergiltdiestfu Its not the standard way of counting on fingers here, on the US east coast. I mainly use it for myself and communicating to friends and others (after explaining it). – AJMansfield Aug 05 '15 at 19:41
  • @AJMansfield I find alternate systems like that fascinating. Slightly OT but I especially liked that alternative tally system which replaces the system of groups of 5 strikes with four dots on the vertices of a square (1-4), then draws the edges (5-8) and finally adds the diagonals (9, 10). Extremely compact. – hiergiltdiestfu Aug 05 '15 at 20:52
  • @hiergiltdiestfu Except dots are rather hard to make with a pencil. I use a hybrid Roman numeral tally system to count (say, hitpoints in D&D). Easy to add large numbers to it quickly. – AJMansfield Aug 06 '15 at 01:04
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    Meta discussion regarding the on-topicness of such questions: When are questions on culture-dependent non-verbal communication on-topic?. – Wrzlprmft Nov 15 '15 at 15:07
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    I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it is about some kind of behavior of German people, but not about German language. – Matthias Nov 18 '15 at 23:04

5 Answers5

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I don't have hard evidence like studies for you, only personal experience (eastern Germany): Yes, we do start counting from the thumb. My kids and their friends in Kindergarten do it that way, my colleagues do, my friends and family count like that aswell. In fact my older daughter (5yo) was only today experimenting to count in different ways, and in the end dismissed all the "wrong" ways. I don't know any Germans who don't count like that. My wife, who is a teacher, says she has seen russian migrant kids counting from the index finger, but no Germans either.

The scene in the movie is plausible.

Edit based on the comments: Maybe as a rule of thumb, keeping down only the pinky (on its side of the hand) feels awkward and will be avoided by first prioritizing the thumb (until 3) and then switching thumb for pinky (at 4). Signaling "one" might be done with the index finger if the thumb is not unambigious enough("thumbs up"), but counting will start at the thumb, so there probably should be made a clear distinction between counting and signaling. When counting, the pinky-thumb switch is not done by everybody, as a non representative survey among a couple of locals who happened to be at hand showed just now.

Counting/Iterating

  1. _....
  2. _l...
  3. _ll..
  4. _lll. or .llll (appears to be 70/30)
  5. _llll

Signaling

  1. _.... or .l... depending on ambiguity wrt. "thumbs up"
  2. .ll.. or _l... (appears to be 50/50)
  3. _ll.. definitely
  4. .llll definitely
  5. _llll

(The ASCII art is supposed to be right hands when looking at their backs, no offense to lefties implied!)

hiergiltdiestfu
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    But note that two beers would possibly be ordered either with thumb and index finger or with index and middle (like a "victory sign") and four beers almost always with all fingers sans thumb. – Stephie Jul 31 '15 at 20:53
  • What about three beers? Do Germans use the thumb and first two fingers? I count using my thumb, but I order with just using my fingers. – Blaze Jul 31 '15 at 23:56
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    Yes, that's the central q of the OP. Maybe as a rule of thumb (snickers), keeping down only the pinky (on its side of the hand) feels awkward and will be avoided by first prioritizing the thumb (at 3) and then switching thumb for pinky (at 4). I guess that's good enough for extending the answer :D – hiergiltdiestfu Aug 01 '15 at 00:07
  • I wonder whether it would be possible to replace the ASCII art entirely with Unicode characters (though for compatibility, this should only be done supplementary at best). – Wrzlprmft Aug 01 '15 at 08:04
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    I am from Bavaria, living in Austria and can just agree to that. Also, nice ASCII drawings. Really made the post better to understand. – Josef Aug 01 '15 at 09:10
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    Fantastic answer! Signed up just to give you a +1 / thumbs-up :) – Stijn de Witt Aug 01 '15 at 11:59
  • @hiergiltdiestfu Loving your ASCII art BTW, very inventive and gets the message across. I figured it out without needing your explanation. – Stijn de Witt Aug 01 '15 at 12:05
  • Stijn: Welcome and thanks :) @Wrzlprmft nice thought, but agreed, only supplementally. I'm wondering what would work better for screenreaders. Also, that would be impractical when editing from mobile(like I often do). – hiergiltdiestfu Aug 01 '15 at 15:16
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    To any offended lefties, imagine the drawings are left-hands viewed from in front :D – Mark K Cowan Aug 02 '15 at 16:27
  • @hiergiltdiestfu Interestingly, while asking around for this between my colleagues (and testing it myself), here in Zürich (Swtzerland) we seem to all use the thumb for 4, keeping the pinky down. It doesn't feel awkward to me, but maybe just because I'm used to it. But, to add extra inconsistency - we do the "two" and "three" whitout the thumb. Strange... In many cases, the pink and the thumb touch while doing the three, forming a circle (like the "ok" sign) – Katai Aug 03 '15 at 12:20
  • @katai Yes, interesting. Do you notice a difference between counting and signaling? Thanks for your feedback! – hiergiltdiestfu Aug 03 '15 at 17:01
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    @hiergiltdiestfu actually, yes: Counting always starts with the thumb, signalign can vary when it comes to the thumb (see comment before). But everybody I could ask here starts counting with the thumb. There is one exception though: "counting while listing something/thinking" seems to start with the pinky for a few (including myself). This is all over the place! D: – Katai Aug 04 '15 at 07:49
  • Where did you get those numbers? "_lll. or .llll (appears to be 70/30)" In my experience, it's the other way round, more people counting like .llll – Iris Oct 16 '15 at 12:24
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    @Iris Thanks for asking! I gave the "source" for this right above the list: When counting, the pinky-thumb switch is not done by everybody, as a non representative survey among a couple of locals who happened to be at hand showed just now. I think it were a couple friends and family which were around that night. The distribution matched my personal impression, so I did not question it any further and did not conduct follow-up surveys. Not normative of course. Maybe if you provide us with your location, some kind of regional difference in preference can be determined? – hiergiltdiestfu Oct 16 '15 at 12:33
  • I am from southwestern Germany.Maybe here lies the reason for the difference :) @ hiergiltdiestfu – Iris Oct 16 '15 at 13:28
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Always order 5 beers! Could save your life ...

When ordering beers, Germans use this, everything else feels weird :-)

  • 4 is without thumb
  • 3 is with thumb
  • 2 is without thumb
  • 1 is without thumb

When counting 1 to 5 or 1 to 10, start at the thumb and add more fingers, then start at the thumb of the second hand.

So yeah, the English spy skipped some classes in spy school.

People using the thumb for combinations 1, 2 or 4 would draw attention, too, that's more like school kids would hold their fingers.

Think I saw old people do the two finger pistol when ordering, so maybe for young ones the victory sign is probably cooler.

Em1
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5beers
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    Did you register just for this answer? :D Cheers and welcome to SE. - - Regarding the 5 beers, there's also a tasteless sketch that goes like this: "Fünf Bier für die Männer vom Sägewerk! holds up hand_..ll" :D – hiergiltdiestfu Aug 01 '15 at 00:50
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    hehe, i spam as a guest, but it lets you pick a name :) nice joke ^^ – 5beers Aug 01 '15 at 00:52
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    1 and 2 with a thumb is also quite common, actually! – Klaster Aug 01 '15 at 10:12
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    When statically showing a number (as in the case of ordering beer) I'd do as 5beers describes, but 2 might alternatively be shown with thumb+index. - When dynamically counting one by one, I'd start from the closed fist by opening thumb, then index, then middle, then pinky(!), then ring finger. - When emphasizing the count by tipping the current finger with the index finger of the other hand, I'd go either thumb, index, middle, ring, pinky or reverse (at any rate with the hand open from beginning). - Maybe there's just too many ways to count... – Hagen von Eitzen Aug 01 '15 at 11:12
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    @hiergiltdiestfu LOL yes! For the non-german speaking: 'Die Männer vom Sägewerk' translates to 'The men from the sawmill'. :) – Stijn de Witt Aug 01 '15 at 12:02
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    1 without thumb? This mean just using the index finger? I never saw this before … I’d confuse it with the sign for attention, i.e., "now listen" instead of "one". – unor Aug 01 '15 at 13:42
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    There has been a controversy recently in the Czech Republic about the prime minister giving a minister a finger. He later explained as meaning 'You are a number one minister'. So, apparently, there are many possibilities even for the sole one. – Pavel Aug 03 '15 at 10:16
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I don't think the region matter in this case. We learn these things in childhood. From teachers, parents, sibling. Some are more comfortable using thumb and index finger than (index,middle) finger. I'm from india. Most people around me use this

  • 1 - index
  • 2- index and middle
  • 3 -index, middle and ring finger
  • 4 -without thumb

    • So thumb only comes into play when you want to show number 5. But still i saw many people from my town using thumb for pointing out 2 and 3. So it depends on people around us, everything we learned until now is imitation.

    Now this post encouraged me to use different combination of fingers to count or show. Hope i would not be embarrassed pointing out wrong combination.

    Keep counting!

    user unknown
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    HungryDB
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      Where in Germany do you live or do you still live in India? Because I don't know anybody in Germany who counts like you do - I'd count mostly with my thumb and so do most people around me (Bavaria as well as Rhine-area). – Martin Aug 03 '15 at 13:33
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    Non-verbal communication with hands is very culturally dependend. It is not as similar as smiling. We ran studies between Chinese and western cultures and the differences are huge in certain areas. Funny example is always the "okay" sign of divers (putting index and thumb together) which means in the Arabian culture a..h... . A quick link for you about counting in different cultures http://news.discovery.com/adventure/how-to-count-with-your-fingers-in-different-languages.htm

    hiergiltdiestfu
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    Pete
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    • Indeed, forming a ring by putting the index finger and thumb together also carries the same obscene meaning in Germany and some other Western places. Interestingly, this link features an ad from the United Arab Emirates where the gesture appears prominently and is meant to have a positive meaning. It is important to be aware of such secondary meanings that are unrelated to counting ;) – O. R. Mapper Aug 02 '15 at 21:09
    • Both links here are dead. :(

      2018 and link rot was never fixed and will never be fixed.

       – Jürgen A. Erhard Oct 18 '18 at 23:37
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    I live in Dresden, former east Germany, and here, as well as in Berlin, you count as follows: 1~thumb, 2~thumb+index, 3~thumb+index +ring finger,4~all 4 no thumb, and 5 with all five fingers. I have never seen here any German who would start counting with his index finger.

    Ingmar
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    user16843
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      "3~thumb+index +ring finger" - really?? That sounds truly difficult. I am kind of incapable of holding up just these three fingers, actually. – O. R. Mapper Aug 07 '15 at 07:33