7

I stumbled upon this while looking up the usage of doch in "Hammer's German Grammar and Usage" (fourth ed), and the subsequent examples are from there. I am familiar with the use of doch for affirmative answers:

Bist du nicht zufrieden? -Doch!

Aren't you satisfied? -Yes, I am.

Kommt er bald? - Doch!

Is he coming soon? - Oh, yes

But the book also gives the following example:

Mutti, kann ich ein Stück Schokolade haben? --Nein doch, du hast jetzt genug gegessen.

Mummy, can I have a piece of chocolate? -Certainly not, you've had enough to eat

And the explanation accompanying it "When used with nein or nicht, doch emphasises a negative reply."

However, when I tried to make up example sentences to myself and ask native speakers about this usage, it did not sound idiomatic to them. Especially after considering the punctuation.

Does anyone have any further information on this? As a related question, how would one express the same sentiment (as the one meant by nein doch)? Perhaps by intensifying nein? Or something like keine Chance or Absolut nicht! ?

EDIT: added the translations provided in the book, in response to the comments about the second sentence.

EDIT The examples referenced above:

A: Kann ich dein T-Shirt leihen?

B: Nein doch. Das letzte Mal hast du Kaffee über meinen Pulli verschüttet.

A: Das Hemd ist ziemlich teuer.

B: Nicht doch. Es ist Seidenhemd und kostet nur 50 Euro.

Community
  • 1
Gal
  • 480
  • 2
  • 5
  • 9
  • 6
    In "Kommt er bald? - Doch!" ist das "doch" falsch, man würde "ja" oder "nein" verwenden. – Robert Oct 28 '14 at 20:00
  • @Robert... maybe the author was thinking about something like "doch, doch keine Sorge", which basically answers to the unspoken assumption that he doesn't come. But I agree. As it stands, especially with the "!" it strikes me as wrong. – Emanuel Oct 28 '14 at 20:03
  • Maybe it's a variation of "Ja doch" which is a common phrase to answer "yes" to an impatient inquiry. – Emanuel Oct 28 '14 at 20:04
  • @Emanuel I think Robert maybe right; I've added the translations provided in the book, and though your suggestion is the most sensible, it seems that the author did not intend it in that way. – Gal Oct 28 '14 at 20:54
  • possible duplicate of Verwendung von Nein nach negativen Fragen – Vogel612 Oct 28 '14 at 21:12
  • nein doch and, more commonly, nicht doch are falling out of use and maybe always have been marking quite formal language. – Crissov Oct 29 '14 at 01:22
  • Do you mind adding these examples you made up? – Em1 Oct 29 '14 at 10:32
  • @Em1 Sure, I guess they're good for laughs :-) – Gal Oct 30 '14 at 23:48
  • I don't think the examples are wrong or bad (except for a missing article). The first one is a little... not idiomatic... but I guess with proper intonation it's fine, though. The second one is perfectly fine. – Em1 Oct 31 '14 at 08:23

1 Answers1

3

German has a three-form-system of answers:

ja, doch, nein

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_and_no#Three-form_systems)

According to Duden, doch can be used to counter negative implications in questions. (http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/doch_Adverb#Bedeutung3)

I would only accept the first sentence as a common use of "doch". In the third it might be used, but I would interpret it as being used as a modal particle.

Veredomon
  • 7,266
  • 11
  • 32