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I want increase my endurance with bodyweight exercises including pull-ups, push-ups, sit-ups etc.

Would it be better to use progressive overload and start at, for example: 3x4 reps for Pull-ups and progress by an extra rep per set every day until I get to my max (say 3x8) and then rest for a day and resume...

or...

grease the groove: do single sets of low reps (for example 3 reps a go) throughout the day. So for example, every time I walk into my room, do 3 pull ups.

or...

a combination of the two: grease the groove with 2 pull-ups a go on the first day, 3 pull-ups a go on the second day, 4 on the third etc. until I reach the point where I'm doing 1 under my max every day and then have a day or two rest and resume?

Also, from what I've read about greasing the groove, it's just making your muscles more efficient - so surely gtg will only work for a certain period of time before you're muscles are as efficient as they can be - maybe then is the time to swap to progressive overload?

Dan
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    How many pull-ups can you do right now? – Dave Liepmann May 16 '13 at 16:22
  • My 1 set max: 12 – Dan May 16 '13 at 16:38
  • At such numbers, the most progress will come from weighting your pull-ups: that is what would constitute progressive overload for you. I wrote some thoughts on this in another answer, but basically, find a way to add weight and keep adding about 2kg a week (with a standard schedule, eg 3x(5-8) thrice a week). The magic starts once the weight is off. – VPeric May 16 '13 at 19:27
  • @VPeric You recommend adding weight with a 1-set max of 12 reps? – Dave Liepmann May 16 '13 at 19:47
  • I don't have the equipment or the want for weighted pull-ups. I just want to improve my endurance of moving my own body around. – Dan May 16 '13 at 20:13
  • @DaveLiepmann When I was training for it, I added weight when I was around 10-10-8 and with my highest added weight of 6kg (on bodyweight of ~75; I didn't have a good way of adding more) I got up to 14-12-12. So maybe not optimal, but it certainly helped me. When would you start adding weight? At 15 maybe? – VPeric May 16 '13 at 21:45
  • @Dan I also used to be against weighted exercises, but equally distributing the weight still keeps it a bodyweight-style exercise. I'm not saying you should jump into +50kg pull-ups, but adding bits and pieces to get to +10 is probably a good investment. – VPeric May 16 '13 at 21:47
  • @VPeric I've always been told to hold off until 3 sets of 15 to 20 reps before adding weight, and I add 25# to start. Works for dips; my pull-ups are weak so I haven't had much of a chance to try. – Dave Liepmann May 16 '13 at 21:53
  • The Norwegian Strength Program study shows that doing an easier workout everyday is actually more effective: https://www.strongerbyscience.com/high-frequency-training-for-a-bigger-total-research-on-highly-trained-norwegian-powerlifters/ – SurpriseDog Nov 15 '20 at 15:05

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If you currently have a one-set max of 12 good-form full-range-of-motion pull-ups, then doing three sets of four isn't going to do much to move that max count. Nor will even a large number of sets of 3 throughout the day. You need to do high-rep sets to improve your high-rep set performance.

In my experience, once I am doing a dozen pull-ups, greasing the groove isn't useful as my sole approach. To improve past 8 or so reps I need to do sets of more than 8. (Below 6 or 8, I've found greasing the groove quite useful on its own.) The primary way I'll do this is with 3 sets of my max (say, 15 then 13 then 12) plus some optional couple back-off sets of 5 to 8 or maybe a version of greasing the groove with a handful of 5- or 10-rep sets on days I'm otherwise resting. 3x4 seems like a step backwards.

If your 12-rep-max isn't current, or finishes with three kipping reps, or finishes with two reps with bad form, or doesn't involve a full range of motion, then I'd use greasing the groove or lower-rep sets to work on those aspects of my pull-ups first.

Make sure you warm up and stretch out your shoulders properly in the morning before your first set of greasing the groove.

Dave Liepmann
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  • I was under the impression that progressive overload was required to facilitate muscle growth so I had been doing 3 sets of 4, then 3 sets of 5, then three sets of 6 etc. until I reached a max, then I would go back down to 3 sets of 4. In the long term, once my 1 set max had gone up, I would move my starting sets to 3 sets of 5 and then progress and so on. So you don't think greasing the groove would work for me even if I performed say, sets of 6/7 throughout the day? – Dan May 16 '13 at 16:58
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    I'm not sure that progressive overload means what you think it means. To me, progressive overload means "work near your limit." If I can do 12 pull-ups, then 3 sets of 4 pull-ups isn't near my limit, so it doesn't help get me better at pull-ups. Progressive overload for that scenario might be 3 sets of 10, or 12 then 10 then 8, or 8 sets of 8 with short rests. Greasing the groove with sets of 6 or 7 would definitely help--but I'd still do near-max sets during my actual workouts. – Dave Liepmann May 16 '13 at 17:16
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    The approach you describe of 3x4, then 3x5 the next day, then, then 3x6 up to 3xMax before resetting I've only seen used for gymnastic moves (such as in Building the Gymnastic Body), where the progressive overload is provided by advancing to a more difficult variation of the move. For instance, if my best front lever is a tuck front lever for 3 seconds, then I might do 6 sets of 15 second tuck front levers, then 6 sets of 20 seconds, then 6 sets of 30 seconds (my max) before dropping back to 6 sets with less time (say, 15 seconds) of a more advanced technique (say, a half-tucked front lever). – Dave Liepmann May 16 '13 at 17:19
  • Sorry, my first comment left out a crucial component of progressive overload. "Work near your limit" and then once your max goes up by doing so, increase the resistance. In this case, if your max is 12, then you should work near 12 until you can do 15, then work near 15, and so on. – Dave Liepmann May 16 '13 at 17:23
  • Okay, I thought progressive overload was where you would increase the intensity of the workout every time until you reached a maximum where you would then knock off weight/reps etc. so you could progress again (I heard about this first from Medhi from Stronglifts 5x5). But you actually have to put in maximal effort every workout and never reduce the reps? – Dan May 16 '13 at 17:36
  • That definition is correct. But if someone can already squat 500 pounds, then it doesn't do them any good to squat 150 pounds for 5 sets of 5. They need to squat over 300 pounds at least. Same with your 12 pull-ups: Doing fifteen sets of 4 might help grease the groove a little, but 3 sets of 4 won't register as a training stimulus. It's too easy. And even when greasing the groove with 15 sets of 4, you'll need to do your high-rep sets regularly if you want to improve your max reps from 12 to 15. – Dave Liepmann May 16 '13 at 17:43
  • Okay, thanks for the replies - one last question, once I reach my maximum in progressive overload (say 3 sets of 9), how long should I take off for my body to not only rest but "reset" so I can begin progressive overload from the start again (say 3x6). Also, if I start at 3x6 and then reach a max after 3 consecutive days at 3x9, I'd then have to stop and reset - is that going to be enough of a progression to facilitate improvement? – Dan May 16 '13 at 17:48
  • I don't think we have achieved communication. If you can do a good 3 sets of 9 then there is no need for you to rest or reset back to 3 sets of 6. You shoot for 3 sets of 10, then 11, and so on. You progressively add reps (or weight). Unless you start to fail or get weaker, why would you "go back" to 3 sets of 6? – Dave Liepmann May 16 '13 at 17:58
  • You can take rest days, but you don't drop the reps when you do. – Dave Liepmann May 16 '13 at 17:59
  • Okay, I'd probably fail at 9, 9, 8 at a guess so at this point I'd want to go back to 3x6 right? Or should I attempt 3x9 a couple of times before resetting? I think that's what Medhi from Stronglifts recommended for barbell exercises. – Dan May 16 '13 at 18:00
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    Chat room!!!!!! – MDMoore313 May 16 '13 at 18:05
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    I can't, I don't have enough points or whatever it is... – Dan May 16 '13 at 18:07
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    Resetting for barbell exercises is different than bodyweight exercises done for reps. For barbells, you do X pounds, 5 sets, 5 reps, and if you can't then you back off. With bodyweight you're usually just shooting for a vague number of reps for 3 or so sets. "3 sets to failure" is a fine pull-up program, and there is no need to "deload" to fewer reps if you do fewer than expected. Shooting for 12 reps each time and only getting 12,10,8 is fine, no need to "deload", just keep aiming for 12,12,12 (or 13,13,13) next time. You don't deload the number of reps with bodyweight exercises. – Dave Liepmann May 16 '13 at 19:38
  • okay, so there's no progression at all. Do you have any source for that information as I've read differently almost everywhere online I've looked - it commonly says that gradually increasing reps is one method of progressive overload. I really appreciate your help btw, sorry if I'm being a bit stupid here :D – Dan May 16 '13 at 20:02
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    Gradually increasing reps is progressive overload. I just don't see where you get the idea of decreasing the reps again. – Dave Liepmann May 16 '13 at 20:06
  • The only reason to decrease reps is if you add weight to your pullups. But then it's no longer a bodyweight only exercise. The concept of progressive overload is to do more work over time. You can add reps, add sets, add weight, or do all the work faster (use less rest). @DaveLiepmann advice is correct. – Berin Loritsch May 16 '13 at 20:17
  • I got that idea from Medhi from Stronglifts but maybe this isn't the typical definition of progressive overload. The method Medhi was talking about was starting light, progressing until you reach a plateau (your max atm) and then if you fail to progress after a few workouts, reduce the weight / reps / whatever down to a lower value and progress again. Adaptation to increased strain = improved performance. Is this false or just progressive overload coupled with a method of breaking plateaus? Would it be more effective to not knock off the reps even if I get stuck? – Dan May 16 '13 at 20:17
  • Yes! It's true, but combined with a method for breaking plateaus. :) Hitting a wall with barbell exercises means you need to reduce the weight/reps/whatever, because the point is adding weight to the barbell steadily over time and always doing 5 reps. So if you don't get 5, that's a failure, you reduce the weight and do 5 and it's still challenging. But doing 9,9,8 on pull-ups isn't a failure the way 5,5,4 is a failure with barbell squats. 9,9,8 just means shoot for 9,9,9 or 10,9,8 next time, because you're just trying for your max number of reps with good form. Don't deload if you get stuck. – Dave Liepmann May 16 '13 at 20:33
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    awesome, so I just need to the most reps I can with good form every time. Thanks for your help :) – Dan May 16 '13 at 20:44
  • Glad to help. Cheers! – Dave Liepmann May 16 '13 at 20:47
  • one last thing - out of interest, what's the benefits of sticking to 5x5 for workouts such as Stronglifts and deloading 10% to return to 5x5 if you fail too many times at a certain weight rather than doing what I'm doing with the bodyweight exercises and just doing as many as you can and never deloading? – Dan May 16 '13 at 20:59
  • 5x5 with deloading when necessary works very well for barbell movements like squat and bench. Maximum-with-good-form works very well for bodyweight exercises like dips and pull-ups. – Dave Liepmann May 16 '13 at 21:02
  • is that a proven fact or just based off your experience? – Dan May 16 '13 at 21:13
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    Proven fact. It's a registered fact in the Department of Truth in New Zealand. – Dave Liepmann May 16 '13 at 21:14
  • haha, okay - would you be able to find me a link saying so because I can't find one. I know I'm pendantic. – Dan May 16 '13 at 21:16
  • You could try reading Practical Programming by Rippetoe and Kilgore, or Science of Sports Training by Tom Kurz, or this answer. – Dave Liepmann May 16 '13 at 21:21
  • okay, thanks very much. I'll stop asking questions now :D – Dan May 16 '13 at 21:26