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In Christianity, the churches always teach about the doctrine of Christianity, the fundamental beliefs, how Christian view God as a Trinity God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are equally al-mighty and equally glorified.

Catholics have different beliefs, especially I find it quite strange when a catholic could not directly pray to the Father using Jesus' name in a prayer, and must be using Mary's name.

So it bothers me when some people are discussing Catholicism's doctrine here in Christianity area. Or the Catholic view themselves as Christian? And what are other things/beliefs that sets apart Catholicism and Christianity?

Disrudog
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  • Obviously every denomination or group of Christians has somewhat different beliefs. To some, baptists or charismatics or anglicans are "cults". I doubt there is no group without some doctrinal error, if God's full truth were compared to it. You may want to ask about differences in beliefs or reasons given for specific beliefs. The question as initially posted probably won't work well here, among other things it asks for "the truth", when all we can answer here is what some group thinks is the truth. – Bit Chaser Jun 07 '19 at 17:16
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    See https://christianity.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/193/brothers-we-are-not-christians for better understanding of how the site works. Also, you may want to read the [tour] and [help]. I hope we can help you understand how Catholics respond to your concerns, and that you will find it worthwhile to contribute here again. – Bit Chaser Jun 07 '19 at 17:19
  • A doctrine, defined by the Oxford dictionary is a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a Church, political party, or other group. Bible proclaim itself as truth, in Christianity brothers and sisters encourage one another, teaches one another with truth. But in this "Christianity Site" it seemed to work otherwise, trying to make truth out of intellectual instead of God's Word as the foundation. I would not recommend young Christian to go through this website. Because according to their rules and regulations, this website is a cult itself. – Disrudog Jun 07 '19 at 17:36
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    This website is christian in the loosest possible sense of the word. It's actually designed and maintained in a way which is favorable for Catholics, Jehovahs Witnesses, Mormons, or anyone else with a clearly defined belief system external to the Bible. – L1R Jun 07 '19 at 17:38
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    I cant stress this enough, if you are a bible believing Christian, this site is not a place for fellowship, edification, or instruction. It's not designed for that. Save yourself a lot of frustration, read the rules and just realize this is not what you might think it is. I have been through this myself. God Bless you. – L1R Jun 07 '19 at 17:40
  • @WillMeetYou, you have a very valid question about practices. While you need to approach this site with discernment, and think of it as secular first, potentially useful to Christians second, I hope you can get an answer about varying practices. In your first paragraph, Catholics and all other Nicean Christians do agree with you. Your issues about approaching God are important, but secondary to Christianity per se. I recommend avoiding pejorative terms like "cult" if your goal is to increase understanding. – Bit Chaser Jun 07 '19 at 18:00
  • @WillMeetYou This site is meant as a source of what is practiced, etc by Christian groups, not specifically saying which if any of them is true. – eques Jun 07 '19 at 19:06
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    @WillMeetYou The premise of your question is based at-best upon a lack of clear knowledge about what Catholicism actually teaches; perhaps you can find questions & answers here which will clarify – eques Jun 07 '19 at 19:07
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    To "view God as a Trinity God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are equally al-mighty and equally glorified," as you wrote in your first paragraph, is a part of Catholic doctrine, retained by many of the Protestant religions when they broke from the Catholic Church. Where did you get the idea that Catholics don't believe this? – Andreas Blass Jun 08 '19 at 01:17
  • TBH denominations (or demoniations) are a big waste of time and are causing more division than necessary within Christendom (Romans 16:17 and Proverbs 6:19). Just make sure your doctrines and beliefs align with the Bible and you're good to go. Anything beyond that is murky territory. Uzzah and Abihu and Nadab would LOVE to more on how to follow and understand the Bible exactly to the dot. – AngelusVastator Jun 08 '19 at 02:12
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    @L1R Thank you, I have just came to realise the same thing not long ago. I believe there are more that are confused by the things that are going around here. The people are seeking not to glorify God, but rather to oppress those who proclaims the Truth, and allow false teaching to flush over other thinkers, by using rules and regulations. However, I am happy that I was able to proclaim truth here, if this place doesn't welcome me, off me go then, shaking the dust off my feet. Glory to God who is a guides those who seek him. – Disrudog Jun 08 '19 at 02:14
  • @AngelusVastator to borrow from Chesterton, creeds do not divide they unify by exactly drawing a line to which we might approach. – eques Jun 10 '19 at 20:43
  • @WillMeetYou well, this isn't a forum for "evangelism" and furthermore, you are making very broad assumptions about Christians of different schools of thought believe and act. – eques Jun 10 '19 at 20:44
  • @eques Creeds aren't exactly the same as denominations. – AngelusVastator Jun 12 '19 at 12:36
  • @AngelusVastator if you understand "creed" as a specific statement of faith, perhaps not. If you understand "creed" as an outline of doctrine, yes. Denominations exist because they differ from one another in something they consider important, typically doctrinally -- although sometimes it's less direct – eques Jun 12 '19 at 13:03

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I'm not sure you're asking this question but in terms of Catholicism "Cult" is not a dirty word, it's just a word that means "folks who follow something in particular".

The Latin Cultus means devotion. So if Mary has a Cult, she has a following within the Catholic and Orthodox Churches with a specific devotion to her.

It's true Catholics honor the name of Mary and Catholics honor the name of God and Jesus and all the angels and all the saints, but Catholics only worship God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). We just reserve the highest form of veneration for Our Lady, because she was chosen as the Mother of God and said yes.

There are several degrees of this worship:

if it is addressed directly to God, it is superior, absolute, supreme worship, or worship of adoration, or, according to the consecrated theological term, a worship of latria. This sovereign worship is due to God alone; addressed to a creature it would become idolatry.

When worship is addressed only indirectly to God, that is, when its object is the veneration of martyrs, of angels, or of saints, it is a subordinate worship dependent on the first, and relative, in so far as it honours the creatures of God for their peculiar relations with Him; it is designated by theologians as the worship of dulia, a term denoting servitude, and implying, when used to signify our worship of distinguished servants of God, that their service to Him is their title to our veneration

As the Blessed Virgin has a separate and absolutely supereminent rank among the saints, the worship paid to her is called hyperdulia

Catholic Encyclopedia - Christian Worship

and there is absolutely nothing in Catholic teachings that would prevent a Catholic from praying in Jesus' name. In fact, almost every prayer in Catholic liturgy ends with saying specifically that we're praying in Jesus' name. And all prayers start "In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit".

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Peter Turner
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  • You bring up a very good point. My understanding is that Catholics do in fact use the word "cult" in a non-pejorative fashion, and I suspect the OP used the word "cult" at least partly because of that use. – Bit Chaser Jun 07 '19 at 18:08
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    OP seems to be using "cult" in its most common usage, not in the broader usage – eques Jun 07 '19 at 19:00
  • Cult is not a dirty word, but it represents something in particular that is either less or more than the fundamental basis of Christianity, for me, explicitly using from a view of a follower of Jesus Christ. Not from a Mormons or a Catholics, or whoknowswhatelse. Simply because because when Bible itself contains truth, the external sources can only "check" if what it is teaching is truth but the external sources doesn't belonged to to believe system itself. In this case, a cult is those who follow some teaching that is fundamentally wrong as according to the Scripture, aka, the word of God. – Disrudog Jun 08 '19 at 02:06
  • @will I think that was C.S. Lewis' problem with Catholicism too. But Catholicism, to most of us, is normal Christianity and the accretions that Lewis complained about aren't barnacles on the feet of a statue representing a nice Church being battered against the waves, but a nice patina on the big toe caused by repeated rubbings by those who just made it out of the sea and are grateful to have something that helps them find salvation. – Peter Turner Jun 10 '19 at 13:36
  • @PeterTurner re: Lewis, that seems unlikely or at least an incomplete picture given his theology was in many ways more Catholic than many Catholics. I seem to recall it being an element of quasi-national pride -- being English, he thought belonging to the Church of England was proper. – eques Jun 10 '19 at 19:07
  • @eques this answer given to me a while back is what I base that comment off of (and reading Mere Christianity) – Peter Turner Jun 10 '19 at 19:11
  • @WillMeetYou your original post suggests you have significant gaps in what Catholicism actually teaches, but more than that your assertion about "less or more than the fundamental basis" of Christianity is a) a view not necessarily shared by any other group that claims the name of Christian and b) if taken literally, would suggest there should be no differences in doctrine (since you exclude "more") and yet various Christian groups have significant differences even when they have similar initial principles (like the role of the Bible) – eques Jun 10 '19 at 19:11
  • @PeterTurner but Mere Christianity is less meant (as he says in its introduction) to argue which form of Christianity is best and more to bring someone "in the door" by outlining what Christians in general would agree upon. – eques Jun 10 '19 at 19:13
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Catholics have different beliefs ...

This is often said by non-Catholic Christians but at least not true for major aspects of Christian belief.

... especially I find it quite strange when a catholic could not directly pray to the Father ...

Being Catholic myself, I have seen a lot of Catholic people. I cannot confirm your observation.

Most Catholics I know personally pray to God Father directly.

... and must be using Mary's name.

A professor teaching Catholic theology on a Catholic university made some lecture in our parish.

She told us that veneration of Mary is an "additional offer in the Catholic Church" to Catholic Christians who want to do this, but it is "not required" for Catholic Christians.

Here in Germany, praying in the name of Mary is done by some Catholics, but only by a small minority.

So it bothers me when some people are discussing Catholicism's doctrine here in Christianity area. Or the Catholic view themselves as Christian? And what are other things/beliefs that sets apart Catholicism and Christianity?

I think this is only because you have a completely wrong idea about what Catholicism is.

Martin Rosenau
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  • "but only by a small minority." That would be unfortunate and also not globally representative. It's also not a sufficient response to the OP's premise. – eques Jun 07 '19 at 18:59
  • @eques The question asked by the OP is a bit confuse so it's difficult to find out what he actually wants to ask. However, I think his main point is that he wants to understand why people that have a "Catholic belief" are using this web site. And I think my answer is clear: These people don't have a "Catholic belief" but they have a Christian belief. The reason why the OP asked this question is that his premises were wrong. – Martin Rosenau Jun 07 '19 at 19:38
  • @eques "That would be unfortunate and also not globally representative" I'm sure in Latin America it will be more than in Germany. However, I had friends in a parish in Peru (native people) and talked to them a lot. I have the impression that Mary does also not play a big role in their religiosity. – Martin Rosenau Jun 07 '19 at 19:42
  • Resenau I meant it is insufficient to answer the critique from OP about "must be using Mary's name.." with "it's not a big part". The fact is that it is part of Catholic devotional life. It seems OP has a mistaken idea of how imperative it is, but to say it isn't a part is incorrect as well. – eques Jun 10 '19 at 13:10
  • also consider how many Catholic institutions are named after titles of Mary; how many shrines are dedicated to Mary, sites of pilgrimage, etc. The most popular devotion remains the Rosary, which is Marian. – eques Jun 10 '19 at 13:11
  • @eques I cannot speak about other countries. However, in Germany many Catholics own a Rosary chain. However, I would say that more than 75% of the Catholics below 40 years do not even know how it is used! And maybe 10% of all Catholics of all ages did the Rosary at least once in their life. And I am not speaking about people who are only "officially" Catholics (but never attending a mass), but only about "real" Catholics who attend a mass on Sundays. ... – Martin Rosenau Jun 10 '19 at 16:55
  • @eques ... I think that the popularity of worship prayer nights with worship band music and gospel songs (an invention from Evangelical or Pentacostal churches) is much higher among German Catholics than the Rosary. However, I would not think that any non-Catholic would connect worship band music with Catholicism. Even conservative Catholics would not believe this. This example shows you that the image of the Catholic church does not reflect the truth. – Martin Rosenau Jun 10 '19 at 17:07
  • and I'm not questioning that perception doesn't match reality. I'm asserting that Marian devotion is more apart of Catholic theology/practice, etc than you seem to think is "normative" and yet less (or at least quite different) than what OP thinks – eques Jun 10 '19 at 18:15
  • certainly one can even assert that parts of the Catholic world have imported customs not belonging to Catholicism and neglected those that to. The question then is what defines Catholicism? How its practitioners act or what the Church outlines? – eques Jun 10 '19 at 18:17
  • @eques The OPs question is based on the premise that Catholics have a different belief than other Christians. However, this is not true. (Of course even the belief of another person in your parish will differ from yours in small details.) As far as I know, the Catholic church does not see itself as union of faithful having a certain belief or practicing certain rites, but "only" as organization that traces back to some early parishes (e.g. the one of Rome) founded by the Apostles. Because of this self-perception nearly everything can be "Catholicism". – Martin Rosenau Jun 10 '19 at 18:39
  • That's patent nonsense. If Catholics didn't believe anything different from the other Christians, no one would have separated in the 16th century and everyone would be Catholic -- which is obviously not the case. The question is whether those Catholic distinctives are contrary to "Christianity" however that may be defined -- for the purposes of this forum, no they aren't contrary to Christianity. – eques Jun 10 '19 at 18:47
  • @eques Here in Germany, the reformation began because some powerful bishops claimed that "Catholic belief" means believing in things that in fact contradicted Christian (and therefore Catholic) belief. Reformation started because Martin Luther and others wanted to get back to "Catholic" belief - and not away from "Catholic" belief. – Martin Rosenau Jun 10 '19 at 20:06
  • and you missed my point. The statement "Catholics have a different belief than other Christians" must be true otherwise the distinction between the two wouldn't exist. The perception yes may have been at the time that they were restoring "Catholic belief" yet obviously those "reformers" and the "Catholics" of today are not on the same page in belief. – eques Jun 10 '19 at 20:10
  • @eques I fully understood your point, but I think it also based on a false premise: Christianity is not "one belief" but millions of people having slightly different beliefs. This is true for Protestantism and for Catholicism. The difference between the belief of a specific Protestant and a specific Catholic person may be less than the difference of the beliefs of two specific Protestant persons from the same parish!! So if you say that "Catholic belief" differs from "Protestant belief", you also have to say that the "two beliefs in that Protestant parish" differ. – Martin Rosenau Jun 10 '19 at 20:31
  • @eques It is true that there are dogmas that every Catholic "must" belief. However, 99.99% of all Catholics do not believe them and only 0.01% do. The OP was asking about Catholics who discuss on this website (which belong to the 99.99%) and not about the "ideal" Catholic belonging to the 0.01%. – Martin Rosenau Jun 10 '19 at 20:37
  • Catholicism in abstract must mean something if it is to be discussed at all. Whether every individual Catholic believes the doctrine entirely is a moot point. The simple fact is that Catholicism and Protestantism (or any other category of Christianity one could consider) does have some doctrinal differences. Those differences though despite the OP's question do not negate the essential Christian nature of Catholicism – eques Jun 10 '19 at 20:40
  • "So if you say that "Catholic belief" differs from "Protestant belief", you also have to say that the "two beliefs in that Protestant parish" differ." No, I don't. I'm not saying that the individual beliefs of two people differ, but the doctrinal schools differ. If someone said they were Muslim, but professed no belief in Allah, most people would wonder what they meant by being Muslim (since it seems to conflict with a common understanding). Similar if one claimed to be Catholic yet rejected fundamentally Catholic doctrine – eques Jun 10 '19 at 20:42
  • @eques The main point is my last comment: The OP was explicitly not talking about the Catholic doctrine, but he or she was talking about Catholic users of this website - and therefore the individual belief of these users. Second thing is that the Catholic church does not see itself as a denomination with a certain doctrine (although there is one), but as a union of all Christians originating from certain countries. This results in rules like: "If you are Catholic once, you will be Catholic until your death; if you are Orthodox once, you can never become Catholic". – Martin Rosenau Jun 11 '19 at 04:39
  • No, OP is definitely referring to Catholic doctrine, not merely Catholic users, given the references to "must be using Mary's name" and "when some people are discussing Catholicism's doctrine here in Christianity area". Catholicism doesn't see itself as a denomination, true but not for the reason you think. Because it claims to be the original form from which everything else is a deformation. It has nothing to do with "certain countries"; Catholic literally means "universal". What has become clear from this conversation is you know only slightly more about Catholicism than OP – eques Jun 11 '19 at 12:53
  • @eques Partially, you are right. However, one of the most important sentences in the OP's question is: "Or the Catholic view themselves as Christian?". I understand the word "Catholic" in this sentence as Catholic individuals, not as the Church's officials. But even if the officials are meant: What still remains is that the OP's idea of the Catholic doctrine has nothing to do with the reality. – Martin Rosenau Jun 11 '19 at 13:54
  • Catholics do in general view themselves as Christian but that doesn't eliminate that there are any differences between them and other Christians. Of course, OP's ideas don't actually reflect the depth and richness and instead are at best vague innuendo. – eques Jun 11 '19 at 14:00