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For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

—John 6:40 NIV (emphasis mine)

Does the bold text above refer to:

A. all the elect who have lived since the creation of Adam?
B. all the elect who have lived since Jesus's time. This theory would mean that no elect lived prior to Jesus's time?

If A is true, then there is a question, how is it that Adam looks to Jesus and believes in Jesus while Jesus had not yet lived?

If B is true, what is God's plan for everyone who lived before Jesus time?

Is there a third explanation I haven't thought of?

Why I propose like A and B, because I read from the internet like this : Reformed theology, also known as Calvinism, teaches that Jesus only bore the sins of the elect

And assuming that I'm not wrong, the process for the elect something like this :
1. there is an info about Jesus story
2. the elect regenerated
3. the elect hear that story about Jesus
4. from that knowledge - the elect look to Jesus
5. and the elect believe in Jesus

I don't understand, what does it mean of this article if it's not talking about the doctrine of election ?

The careful reader, however, will note that 6:40 follows 6:35-39. Hence, if the flow of thought means anything, we already have the identity of those who will come, behold, and believe, established in these preceding verses. Remembering that Jesus is explaining the unbelief of those who have seen Him work miracles, we have the identification of those who do come to Christ as those who are given to the Son by the Father (6:37); the same ones who will be infallibly raised up by the Son as per the Father’s will (6:38-39). We have already been told in 6:37 that those the Father gives to the Son come to the Son: coming is active. Believers believe. Saving faith is a gift of God, given to His elect people.

karma
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    You gotta stop posting these false dichotomies! Seriously! This is a bad question format. – curiousdannii Nov 16 '17 at 00:58
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    Your question is based on completely faulty logic. John 6:40 says everyone who looks and believes has eternal life. It says nothing anyone who doesn't fit those two criteria. You can't infer *anything* about people who lived before Jesus from this verse. – curiousdannii Nov 16 '17 at 01:00
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    @curiousdannii He did ask if there could be a “C” – Zenon Nov 16 '17 at 02:40
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    @Zenon And almost every single time, people have gone "yes it's something else." This is a bad, unfruitful question format. karma seems to have heard second hand of some idea about RT and then makes up two possible interpretations and asks which is correct. That's not how you ask a good question. – curiousdannii Nov 16 '17 at 02:56
  • @curiousdannii, I'm just connecting it to what Reformed teach which as long as I know, in Reformed point of view - the "everyone" refers to the elected before the creation. So... my A and B is consistent with RT. – karma Nov 16 '17 at 03:40
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    Where does it say, either in scripture or reformed theology, that Adam was saved? This seems to be an assumption on your part. A citation would be useful. – Mick Nov 16 '17 at 03:42
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    @karma Which Reformed Theology authors have you been reading recently? It would help your questions immensely if you could provide quotes to some of them. – curiousdannii Nov 16 '17 at 03:45
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    @curiousdannii If you think that the question is defective, you can always down-vote. That's what the facility is for. There is an automatic penalty for persistently asking down-voted questions. – Mick Nov 16 '17 at 03:49
  • @mick, I'm not saying that Adam was saved. I use Adam as an example from a people who live since the creation. When Adam live, there has to be info about Jesus story ---> then it become possible "Adam look to Jesus and believe" via that story which Adam hear/know. So... I am not saying that [Adam look to Jesus and believe], but the condition has to be there in order something like "Adam look to Jesus and believe" possible to happen. – karma Nov 16 '17 at 03:57
  • @curiousdannii, I've read from carm website : [Reformed theology, also known as Calvinism, teaches that Jesus only bore the sins of the elect]. Me : So... the one who looks to Jesus and believe logically is only refers to the elected before the creation according to RT. – karma Nov 16 '17 at 04:14
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    It seems to me that your question should be about modes of salvation in pre-Abrahamic times, and I suspect that it would be extremely difficult to frame a question narrow enough in scope to be on-topic here. We simply do not know how God interacted with men in those times. We do know that Jesus counted Abel among the prophets, but that's about all we know. Anything else is pure speculation, even among theologians who have left us their opinions. – Mick Nov 16 '17 at 04:28
  • @Mick, yes....I'm interested in "Adam's time" . In that verse Jesus said "My Father's Will". Which when I apply that "His Father's Will" (which Jesus mentioned in the sentence I bold) into "Adam's time", this cause a question from my mind. BTW, you wrote "We do know that Jesus counted Able". I wonder, how human able to know that it was the Son not the Father who counted Abel ? :) – karma Nov 16 '17 at 04:43
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    But your question still contains a false dichotomy, and that needs to be fixed. – Mick Nov 16 '17 at 04:50
  • @Mick, I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean. Do you mean that [everyone who looks to the Son and believes] ---> that "everyone" is not the elected before the creation according to RT ? So... that's why my A and B contains a false dichotomy ? – karma Nov 16 '17 at 04:55
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    You can't find every doctrine in every verse. This verse doesn't say everything. It's not specifically about the doctrine of election. It's not about salvation in OT times. – curiousdannii Nov 16 '17 at 06:56
  • @KorvinStarmast, thank you for your edition. Please have a look to my second edit, I put a link where the article use John 6 (including chapter 40) connected to the doctrine of election. To be honest, I can not see what is the format problem of my question. Why when I say that "according to the RT, [everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life] are the elected one" is wrong ? If I am wrong, then who are they according to RT ? – karma Nov 16 '17 at 16:52
  • @KorvinStarmast, Ooopss.... I'm sorry ... I will remove the second edit. :) – karma Nov 16 '17 at 17:09
  • @KorvinStarmast, LOL... sorry my mistake to understand what you mean. I will bring back my second edit. Thank you Korvin. – karma Nov 16 '17 at 17:15

1 Answers1

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John Calvin himself wrote in his commentary of the Bible, pertaining to John chapter 6, verse 40 (emphasis mine):

He uses the words, see and believe, in contrast with what he had formerly said; for he had reproached the Jews with not believing, even though they saw, (verse 36.) But now, speaking of the sons of God, with the feeling which they have of the power of God in Christ, he joins the obedience of faith. Moreover, these words show that faith proceeds from the knowledge of Christ; not that it desires anything beyond the simple word of God, but because, if we trust in Christ, we must perceive what he is, and what he brings to us.

Calvin is saying here that Jesus’s words should be seen in the context of the overall passage. He is speaking of the Jews at the present time, in contrast to those who had seen yet not believed. He isn’t making such a broad statement about all human history like A or B. In short:

C. The Jews have seen. Those who believe as a result of their seeing will be saved; those who have seen and don’t believe won’t be saved.

This question and its answers may lend some assistance in understanding how people prior to Jesus were saved, but the above commentary sums up the Reformed interpretation of John 6:40.

Zenon
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    @curiousdannii Clarified. I’ll add in some more explanation when I get home – Zenon Nov 16 '17 at 01:32
  • Zenon, thank you for the answer. Jesus said that is His Father's will. Am I correct to think like this : "His Father's Will on that present time" as Calvin said that [Jesus is speaking of the Jews at the present time]. But from the Calvin's quote : [faith proceeds from the knowledge of Chris] ... to me this still raise a question : how is that Adam able to have faith if faith proceeds from the knowledge of Chris ? – karma Nov 16 '17 at 03:33
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    @karma That would be a separate question, which has already been answered in the question I linked to. If there isn’t a Calvinist perspective in the answers for that question, you can ask your new question in a new post. – Zenon Nov 16 '17 at 03:36
  • Zenon, there something came in my mind.... to have Calvin consistent .... then I think when he said [faith proceeds from the knowledge of Chris] maybe Calvin meant it's also apply starting from that present time. Calvin never meant something like this [Abel's faith proceeds from the knowledge of Jesus].

    I will go to the link and read it. Thank you, zenon.

     – karma Nov 16 '17 at 03:49
  • @curiousdannii, assuming I am a Reformed, I also don't think that B is "fit" with RT. My only other option is A, but then as I describe in my post, it raise another question if I choose A. – karma Nov 16 '17 at 04:50
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    @karma Again, as mentioned in my answer, neither A nor B is true. C is. Jesus isn’t trying to talk about Adam or Abel or anyone from the past, or about you or me or anyone from the future; he is speaking about the Jews in his present time. – Zenon Nov 16 '17 at 06:24
  • @karma the Reformed position is that the proto-evangelium contains knowledge of Christ, which was expanded upon with the giving of the covenants and prophecies about Christ. Adam and Eve knew about Christ, even though they didn't know very much. – Birdie Nov 16 '17 at 08:23
  • @Zenon, you wrote [he is speaking about the Jews in his present time]. Please have a look to my second edition. From what I think, the article doesn't say that John 6:40 is talking about the Jews who lives in that time. The article connect John 6: 35-40 with the doctrine of election. Thank you. – karma Nov 16 '17 at 16:57
  • @karma I’m aware of what you think about the commentary; I’m saying my my answer that it is an incorrect thought. – Zenon Nov 16 '17 at 16:58
  • @Birdie, thank you for your comment. You wrote [Adam and Eve knew about Christ, even though they didn't know very much]. I wonder, do you mean that Adam and Eve at least know about the Son and the Father - although they don't know that the Son will come on earth ? – karma Nov 16 '17 at 17:01
  • @Zenon, thanks for the comment. It's just quite confusing for me, as one side told me that the verse is not specifically about the doctrine of election - yet another side seems connect the verse with the doctrine of election. :). – karma Nov 16 '17 at 17:06
  • @karma I don't know to what extent Adam and Eve understood the Trinity. All I am saying is that they knew that a seed would come to crush the devil. This is the first telling of the gospel and prophecy of Christ. You should edit your question so it doesn't have your "Is it A B or C" style. Ask one question and let the answers give you the answer instead of you giving possible answers. – Birdie Nov 16 '17 at 22:24
  • @Birdie, you wrote : [You should edit your question so it doesn't have your "Is it A B or C" style] The difficulties with me if I don't put my question in that kind of style is because with my limited English, I can not express what I mean in my question, Birdie. Besides, I will not put one question like this : [according to RT, who are the "everyone" in that verse ?] while I myself already think that the "everyone" is the elected before the creation according to RT. Some said that I was wrong, but later I found in the internet that RT say they are the elected only. – karma Nov 18 '17 at 04:07