Salvation by good works alone?

Question

Is the idea of salvation by works alone considered by any branch of Christianity? Consider a person one would describe as good or doing a lot of good, but who doesn't believe in the supernatural. Like Adam Savage, for example, but pick your own example if you don't like him. Why would a good God condemn someone like this to torture? In fact, why would God care more if someone is worshipping him than if they're doing good? In my opinion, such attitude doesn't even pass the test for a good person, and it's the chief reason why I will never believe in God. How is this justified in Christianity?

Possible duplicate http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/19321/are-we-saved-by-grace-or-works — BYE, Dec 27 '13 at 20:04
@CecilBeckum thanks, I also found another question with a slightly different emphasis: http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/14733/good-person-going-to-hell-simply-for-not-believing — Aleksei Averchenko, Dec 27 '13 at 20:08
Also, this question goes hand in hand with mine: http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/2516/is-it-a-sin-to-do-works-for-the-sake-of-rewards-in-heaven I don't want to go far to the subjective feelings territory, but answering "No" to it is repugnant to me. — Aleksei Averchenko, Dec 27 '13 at 20:16
im sure there is a denomination that supports this theory out there — WelcomeNewUsers, Dec 27 '13 at 20:23
@AaronKorn I thought so too, but couldn't find any on the Wikipedia. — Aleksei Averchenko, Dec 27 '13 at 20:26
What do you mean by "a good God"? What standard are you using? In the Christian worldview, God defines "good," and so it doesn't make sense to say, "if God is good, he would..." What God does is good; though why it's good might not be obvious. — mojo, Dec 27 '13 at 20:44
@mojo I mean that such attitude doesn't fit with my moral sentiments. Redefining good via God is just semantics. — Aleksei Averchenko, Dec 27 '13 at 21:00
@AlexeiAverchenko, Sure, but where do your moral sentiments come from? Do you have a definitive source for knowing what is "good," or did you decide for yourself what qualifies? — mojo, Dec 27 '13 at 21:11
@mojo That's well beyond the scope of the question :) I understand that "God is simply right" is technically a valid answer to my question, but it's not particularly illuminating. — Aleksei Averchenko, Dec 27 '13 at 21:21
@AlexeiAverchenko, I would consider it pertinent to the question only because you're asserting that if God behaves the way (some?) Christians say, he's not "good." By what standard is it logical to judge the one who defines "good?" How shall I argue for or against such a standard (particularly if I don't know what it is)? — mojo, Dec 27 '13 at 21:26
@mojo I feel that it's not good or fair to act like this. I would call a person who demands worship under threat of punishment names. I don't claim to know why I feel this way, I just do. I guess the closest thing I can think of is that such attitude is selfish, and it would make the world a nicer, kinder place to demand good acts instead of faith. — Aleksei Averchenko, Dec 27 '13 at 21:30
It is after all, what Jesus preached - How to treat each other. — The Freemason, Dec 27 '13 at 21:37
why would God care more if someone is worshipping him than if they're doing good -- we worship God by doing good. Christ "went about doing good" (Acts 10:38). "Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world." (James 1:27). So by definition, doing good is worshiping God. We can't be true believers and not do the works that Christ did, which was serving others 24/7. — Jake Toronto, Jul 07 '14 at 19:49

score 2 · Accepted Answer · answered Dec 27 '13 at 20:15

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God's Justice and Mercy

To start off, it should be noted that doing a lot of good things does not exempt any of us from human law. I give a lot of money to charities, treat people well, pay taxes, etc. It could well be said that I am a good person. However, a few years ago, I received a speeding ticket. I did not go before the judge and plead "I'm a good person." I simply acknowledged that even though I am, by this world's standards, a fairly good person, I still broke a law. I realized there was a penalty for breaking the law, so I willfully paid the penalty for myself. No amount of good deeds that I could volunteer make up for my offense.

There are, indeed, a whole lot of people who live very good and exemplary lives. However, we are not judged for the good that we do, but for the offenses we commit. A doctor who saves a million lives is not exempt from the penalty if he murders only one person. Neither are we exempt from our offenses just because we do many good things. Before God, all of us have sinned and are subject to penalties for that. That is basic justice.

It is very important to note, however, that even though God's holiness is so great that He requires justice for even the slightest disobedience, His love and mercy are so great that even the greatest offense can be forgiven. Thus, there is forgiveness offered not for only the best people who live the most exemplary lives, but also for the worst of us who have sinned the greatest.

God's Judgment

It needs to be stated that God's justice righteously punished people for their offenses, yet He has done everything necessary to offer people forgiveness, taking upon Himself the penalty that we ourselves deserve.

You asked how could God condemn "good" people to torture? We should also ask how God could take the penalty for the sins of evil people? His justice can certainly be seen as harsh, even if it is righteous. His love, however, is quite extravagant, opening forgiveness for all people--not just the best ones.

That is why salvation is not of works, but of faith. Salvation by works could only be attained by a few. Salvation by faith opens the door to all people, and that is much more loving, gracious and merciful.

One more comment

I would suggest, however, that your belief on whether or not there is a God should not depend on whether or not God lets people earn their way to heaven. In doing so, one would have to charge God with a moral wrong, but implicit in the acknowledgement of a moral standard is the recognition of a moral lawgiver, which is God.

Also, someone once said, if I had a deadly disease, I would not be angered to find out there was only one cure that would heal me--I would be most appreciative. We are all sinners--those who have broken God's law to various degrees. Yet, God longs to see all people receive forgiveness that He has provided through the greatest of sacrifices.

answered Dec 27 '13 at 20:15

Narnian

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Thanks, this is very illuminating. It seems that you view humanity as basically bad, needing salvation, while I view it as basically good, needing guidance. I believe in Superman, not Jesus, so to speak :) – Aleksei Averchenko Dec 27 '13 at 20:21
@AlexeiAverchenko I think that would be accurate. Certainly from a biblical perspective man is sinful. But if you look at the world, you see the Holocaust, a world full of rape and murder and violence, hatred and wars, it is reasonable to conclude that there is something within mankind that is very bad. Certainly there are many who live very honorable lives, but there are many who live in a way that can only be described as evil. – Narnian Dec 27 '13 at 20:30
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And even those "good" people have to overcome the urge and tendency to do "bad" things. While I might not say that we're inherently "bad" (as if we had no good inclinations), but we are definitely "inherently flawed." – mojo Dec 27 '13 at 20:39
@mojo I was tempted to say "flawed", too, but clearly if a flaw is more important than any number of virtues unless it is "removed" by God, it's not just a flaw, but something qualitatively different. – Aleksei Averchenko Dec 27 '13 at 20:52
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In your opinion, how much good should be sufficient to qualify someone to avoid eternal punishment? – mojo Dec 27 '13 at 21:14
@mojo I assume your question is for Alexei? – Narnian Dec 27 '13 at 21:19
@mojo I wouldn't condemn anyone to eternal punishment. We have human laws, and sometimes according to these laws people are sentenced to prison for certain crimes, and generally we try to make the sentence proportional to the crime. So unless the crime is infinitely bad, why would one have to suffer for it forever? – Aleksei Averchenko Dec 27 '13 at 21:26
@AlexeiAverchenko, so I assume that you don't want salvation by works, either, but rather universal salvation (or, at least, no eternal punishment)? – mojo Dec 27 '13 at 21:27
@AlexeiAverchenko We would probably charge God with injustice if He forced everyone to spend eternity with Him against their will. – Narnian Dec 27 '13 at 21:29
@mojo It's a tricky question, the best way to put it is that I would think more of Christianity if according to its teachings salvation by works alone were possible. – Aleksei Averchenko Dec 27 '13 at 21:34
@AlexeiAverchenko If God allowed people to save themselves by their works, then God would have to be unjust. There is ample reason to think highly of Christianity, though. Christians all over the world feed the poor, care for the sick, help the hurting... – Narnian Dec 27 '13 at 21:36
@Narnian sure, but why is the only other option the Devil? I wouldn't mind spending eternity with just my loved ones. – Aleksei Averchenko Dec 27 '13 at 21:36
@AlexeiAverchenko Some of your loved ones might be with God. C. S. Lewis has an interesting book entitled The Great Divorce, I believe, which depicts what hell is. You see, the problem is not simply rejecting God, but that we are sinners to our very core in desperate need of transformation--not just therapy. A caterpillar does not become a butterfly by trying really hard to fly--but by going through metamorphosis. – Narnian Dec 27 '13 at 21:37
@Narnian but you get my point, right? Why am I only limited to two options? Surely God is powerful enough to grant me the ability to visit my loved ones, wherever they are, and then retire to solitude when I so desire. And I do think highly of many Christians, and of Christ (although e.g. his views on divorce aren't up to modern standards), just not Christianity :) – Aleksei Averchenko Dec 27 '13 at 21:48
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let us continue this discussion in chat – Narnian Dec 27 '13 at 21:49

score 2 · Answer 2 · edited Apr 13 '17 at 12:56

Preface:

This site's guidelines says that anyone who self-identifies as a Christian is considered a christian for this site. That means that if you believe in salvation by works alone, yet call yourself a Christian you are, by definition, a group (of one) that believes this. So if there is even a single group out there consisting of two people that believe this, then the answer would, technically, be "yes". And there probably are those out there that meet that definition. If there is such a thing as "Christian Atheists", why not?

It is possible that such groups exist. However, they would be considered as heretical (at best) or crackpots (more likely) by pretty much every mainstream denomination and most established non-mainstream denominations. Here's why:

By definition, the idea of salvation by works alone completely negates any need for Jesus Christ. It's hard to say "I'm a Christian, but Christ doesn't matter at all" with a straight face. It defies logic, and doesn't make sense. It's like saying "I'm an atheist that believes in God."

As pointed out in my answer to What is unique about Christianity, Christ is central to Christianity. That should be so obvious it shouldn't need to be said. The need for Christ is what defines Christianity. The central message of Christianity is that we couldn't possibly earn our way into heaven, because we are not able to meet God's standard of perfection, so He had to provide another way: Christ. Even those who believe that works of righteousness are necessary wouldn't deny the need for Christ. By any sane and logical definition, such groups would be not Christian because Christ is not necessary to the belief.

Salvation by good works alone?

2 Answers2