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Intelligent Design is a current brand of natural philosophy that at its simplest holds that the Universe (ie, everything) has been designed intelligently. It opposes ideas like a spontaneous beginning or an eternal universe.

But the proponents of ID, eg Behe, Dembski, Discovery Institute, Center for Science and Culture.. all seem to be explicitly against any form of (macro) evolution, even if intelligently designed and executed. Why reject theistic evolution?

djeikyb
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    Which Christians are you referring to? –  Aug 31 '11 at 22:48
  • Basically answered by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design – mxyzplk Sep 01 '11 at 02:40
  • See meta discussions: http://meta.christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/330/how-is-christianity-se-different-from-wikipedia && http://meta.christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/325/how-can-we-get-better-expert-level-questions-or-stackexchange-vs-yahoo-answers – djeikyb Sep 01 '11 at 07:04
  • @mxyzplk Updated the question based on the meta discussions. – djeikyb Sep 01 '11 at 07:46
  • I think to get an answer to that question, you'd have to ask those proponents. I cannot presume to know their minds. – Flimzy Sep 01 '11 at 08:13
  • Yeah, the edit makes it not "reference close" but would suggest rewording to omit "proponents" as it causes ad hominem issues as Flimzy points out. Why does Intelligent Design reject evolution, even intelligently designed and executed evolution? Of course you'd be hoping there would be an IDer to answer, as opposed to a sea of "my opinion on evolution is..." – mxyzplk Sep 01 '11 at 11:55
  • For a better way of asking this question, see: http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/130/can-i-believe-in-evolution-and-still-be-a-christian – Shog9 Sep 01 '11 at 23:42
  • @Shog9 huh? But that isn't what I want to ask. – djeikyb Sep 02 '11 at 00:18
  • Can you perhaps clarify then, what you're trying to determine? – Shog9 Sep 02 '11 at 00:22
  • @Shog9 "Why does Intelligent Design reject evolution, even intelligently designed and executed evolution?" – djeikyb Sep 02 '11 at 00:34
  • The OP asks "Why reject theistic evolution?" Answer: A Theistic creation is a top down creation from above by God; an evolutionary creation is a bottom up creation, essentially by luck. You really cannot mix these two in any meaningful way. I suspect Christians who believe in theistic evolution have little idea just how impossible any form of evolution actually is.. they haven't read up on the difficulties. Maybe read "Darwin's Doubt" or "Signature of the Cell"? Both by Dr Stephen Meyer. – Andrew Shanks Feb 14 '22 at 12:32
  • Evolution is impossible? Before evolution can even start you need something that can self-replicate/reproduce. For instance, there are over 1 * 10 to the power of 195 possible combinations for a protein length of 150 amino acids, using only the 20 amino acid used in all living things. Assuming 10 atoms per amino acid that would be more than 1 * 10 to the power of 196 atoms needed to make every possible combination. A scientific estimate of the number of atoms in the visible universe is 1 * 10 to the power of 80. The simplest known self-replicator has over 100 different kinds of protein. – Andrew Shanks Feb 14 '22 at 16:37

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The Intelligent Design Debate is all about getting people to admit there is some creator of the universe rather than Evolution. Its not about saying this creator is God or some other such deity.

IMHO it is used as a stepping stone as people who don't want to believe there is a God can swallow the idea easier.

To summarise the ID theory:

  • Irreducible Complexity: Even when you reduce biological organisms down to their most basic systems they are still too complex to happen randomly.
  • Specified Complexity: Biological organisms are not just complex but they are specified or ordered complexity. Since the pattern (or order) specified to make biological organisms they can't happen randomly.
  • Intelligent Designer: When both the above are true there must be an Intelligent designer.

(DISCLIAMER: I may have gotten parts of the ID thoery wrong in my attempt to simplify it please help correct me if I have.)

EDIT:- To address the (macro) Evolution stance:

I can't say for certain as I am not associated with any ID organisation but my theory would be that if macro Evolution was the method that the Intelligent designer used to create organisms it would give rise to the ability that it could be done again (evolve). (ID theory was brought out of an anti-evolution philosophy. Does that make it biased? I'm not sure but I like when we question long held blind-beliefs.)
Keep in mind that both Evolution theory and the Intelligent Design theory are still theories. Neither of which (no matter how many people believe it is true) have any substantial proof either way.

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James Khoury
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    Don't conflate creation of the universe with [biological] evolution, these are different and separate arguments. – Andrew Vit Sep 01 '11 at 02:44
  • @Andrew how is the Evolution theory a different matter from the Intelligent Design theory. They are both Creation theories and they have conflicting ideas. I'm not quite sure I understand? – James Khoury Sep 01 '11 at 02:52
  • Maybe I misunderstand your perspective, but isn't creation related to cosmology, and evolution to biology? – Andrew Vit Sep 01 '11 at 03:14
  • @ andrew Intelligent Design is about creation of life. A dirt rock is not complex, it's just dirt. – James Khoury Sep 01 '11 at 03:17
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    Your wording is confusing: nobody (I hope) argues that evolution created the universe. – Andrew Vit Sep 01 '11 at 03:35
  • @Andrew Its the "evolution created living things" part of it. The extension to that is if an Intelligent Designer created living things then maybe they created everything else too but that's an extension rather than the focus. – James Khoury Sep 01 '11 at 03:38
  • @James Khoury Updated the question based on the meta discussions. – djeikyb Sep 01 '11 at 07:46
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    "Getting people to admit" and "who don't want to believe there is a God can swallow the idea easier" are unwise phrasing IMO; those words undermine the entire "theory", since it pre-supposes the thing it intends to support. It is also a tad informatory. – Marc Gravell Sep 01 '11 at 08:07
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    I have to vote this question down for confusing evolution and creation. Evolution is one possible explanation for life on Earth (either with or without God), but has little to do with creation of the universe. – Flimzy Sep 01 '11 at 08:13
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Most of the intelligent design proponents you are talking about are Christians who have a somewhat literal interpretation of genesis. Because they consider genesis literal, for them to admit it's not correct would mean (to them) that there is a mistake in the Bible, and the rest of their faith (including the existence of God) would be up for debate.

tl;dr they are inflexible with their beliefs, so they must disregard any theory that contradicts their beliefs.

CiscoIPPhone
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  • Note: -- Please let's refrain from carrying on extended conversations in comments. Comments should generally address improvements to the original post. They're not for participating in on-going debate or parenthetical discussions. Please feel free to use the chat room to conduct such discussions. Thanks. – Robert Cartaino Sep 02 '11 at 13:44
  • @Robert Apologies. I'll be in the 'Creationism' and 'Questions for Atheists' rooms if anyone would like to discuss it further. – CiscoIPPhone Sep 02 '11 at 13:48