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Who is the best chess player with Down Syndrome? Wiki says that the mental ability of a person with Down Syndrome equals to this of a healthy person 8 or 9 years old. So, are there some players with this syndrome, as there are many admirable healthy players at the age of 8-9?

What is the elo ceiling in that case? Is it possible a "Magnus Carlsen with Down Syndrome" to get in 2000 or 2200 elo?

What about other types of intellectual disabilities?

D M
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nwo
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  • I am not sure if the player I quoted is the highly rated player, but probably, as he was rated 1980 at 2015 and I didn't find any other new about a strong Down Syndrome player (and probably press would have published something about a +2000) –  Jan 02 '20 at 20:13
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    A comment a bit off-topic. Don't trust those estimations a Down intelligence is like a 10 years old one. If they are well educated they can make a movie. In this one down actors recently won spanish version of Hollywood's Oscars. If educated they can match with adult society. Subramaniam Karaan is also actor, maybe that's because his rating has fallen from 2000 to 1800. –  Jan 02 '20 at 20:33
  • Down's can vary in how strongly people are affected. I suspect that very high functioning people with Down's only have a mosaic version of Down's: Only a part of their cells has the trisomy 21. That makes the symptoms much less severe. – BlindKungFuMaster Feb 06 '20 at 13:38

1 Answers1

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There are a lot of titled players with high functioning autism.

One known is GM David Navara, but there are others. It is discussed if Bobby Fischer was Asperger too. There was a buzzing Magnus Carlsen was autistic too, but looks false according to Quora. Another example of GM that looks to be autistic is GM Julio Granda from Peru.

As for Down Syndrome, they have not the abilities an Asperger has, but they can learn how to play chess competitively.

Subramaniam Karaan, from India, has Down Syndrome, and he is rated 1806 when I write on FIDE list. He is also rated 1832 in blitz, and was close to reach 2000 in 2015.

PhishMaster
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    Different conditions with much different impacts. I knew Fischer and he was different for sure. Not sure that he did have Asperbergers, and certainly did not have Downs. He did have some social adjustment issues but he never demonstrated autism when I saw him. DSM V will have many possibilities for amateurs to try to fit to Fischer. – yobamamama Jan 02 '20 at 17:50
  • @yobamama the autist ratio has fallen in the last decades to 1/70 childs borned. I am low grade asperger and if you met me you wouldn't think I have an Autist Spectrum Disorder. This is because Asperger learn to mask the social disabilities by learning how to mimetize with the environment. Said that, if Bobby had Asperger disorder he would also had a low grade one. I have met some high grade Asperger and the obvious thing you see on them and you don't see on me or on Bobby is they are not able to look into your eyes. That doesn´t mean he hadn't the syndrome (in low grade). –  Jan 02 '20 at 17:57
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    I never said Bobby did not have it. I said that I never noticed it. And that article noted was speculation not a diagnosis by a trained person. – yobamamama Jan 02 '20 at 18:02
  • @yobamamama no Bobby was not diagnosed. At his time it was a strange disorder (the psychiatrist hadn't read Asperger manual). But I noticed I was Asperger after watching The Big Bang Theory, psychiatrists that had diagnosed me of schizoaffective corroborated it. The director had an asperger brother and Seldon Cooper, the main character, shows it in low grade too. I see many coincidences between what Seldon Cooper does on The Big Bang Theory and what Bobby did asking for a special toilet on the World Championship match, atacking FIDE.... –  Jan 02 '20 at 18:10
  • Also to atack the system is a sympthom of Asperger, it is called irritability asociated with autism. Bobby atacked the US too, but that's maybe because the FBI and the CIA atacked him before because his mom was comunist. –  Jan 02 '20 at 18:10
  • And many other conditions are associated with that action too. We will never know because Bobby was not diagnosed by a licensed professional. This is akin to some reporter writing a column saying some politician has problem 'x'. He may be right or he may not. Even a licensed shrink who never examined the subject properly could not make a valid diagnosis from just observations at a distance. – yobamamama Jan 02 '20 at 18:14
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    @yobamamama there were no such licensed professionals at his time. Even now psychiatrists are staticians that do pseudo-science classifying deviations for a non existing "normal brain". Trust me, my mother is Asperger, I am Asperger. I cannot say 100% Bobby was "Asperger", but at least he shew Asperger patterns in low grade. –  Jan 02 '20 at 18:25
  • The facts say otherwise. All such professions have been licensed since before Fischer's time . Whether you think they are quacks or not is beside the point. We do NOT know what Fischers' problems were only some of the symptoms we could observe. The symptoms may have been due to one or more of several other problems he had. – yobamamama Jan 02 '20 at 18:27
  • @yobamamama Let us continue this discussion in chat if you wish –  Jan 02 '20 at 19:27
  • Doesn't the quora answer say that Carlsen IS autistic? "Yes, Magnus Carlsen is high on the autism spectrum." – Akavall Jan 02 '20 at 20:45
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    @Akavall acording to Jimmy Wales answer, Carlsen replied it was obvious he was not. "Here is a useful quote from Wikipedia, and then I will add a personal anecdote: “In 2008, during a Q&A session with Nettavisen, when Carlsen was asked whether he had a form of autism spectrum disorder, he replied "Well, isn't that obvious?" In December 2013, in an interview with Norwegian tabloid Verdens Gang, he clarified that he had meant "obviously not", and said that he considers himself to have "normal social skills and to be functioning normally."” –  Jan 02 '20 at 21:03
  • @Akavall But he migth be low grade as Fischer too, as it is said in other of the quora answers as you quote. We should ask him :) Magnus are you there? Uncle Stack needs you XD –  Jan 02 '20 at 21:35
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    @Universal_learner I don't think we need to ask him if he has already answered that question in the media in the negative. I mean if he was low grade I would think his answer would have been different than it was. – Michael Jan 02 '20 at 22:54
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    @Michael that's Jimmy Walles accepted answer on Quora. Magnus has yet rejected that on a Norweig interview. The little doubt one can have if Magnus was trying to hide the true, because there is that answer Akavall says on Quora: "Yes, Magnus Carlsen is high on the autism spectrum." Autism spectrum is still not well known. Carlsen may have some little likeness with an Asperger, but as Asperger I am I can recognize Fischer on my spectrum, but after seeing Magnus meeting lichess anual meeting I would rarely say Magnus is Asperger. –  Jan 02 '20 at 23:04
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    For any outsider the vast majority of people who spend hours each day studying any game with little social interaction are somewhere on the more autistic side of the spectrum. Not that they are clinically autistic; they just expose some related traits to a stronger degree than, say, the people over at role playing games. – Peter - Reinstate Monica Jan 03 '20 at 13:16