Can I do a PhD without MSc?

Question

I am currently an undergraduate student in Turkey. I will graduate from genetics department and I would like to do a PhD without MSc in abroad. However my GPA sucks ( probably it will be 2.5 or 2.6 out of 4 ).

I have done my summer internships in Germany and America. I am very good in laboratory and I think I have got enough knowledge to do a PhD in genetics. My English level is upper-intermediate and I definitely have good references ( I have talked with 4 people, they are all Prof. and they all said that they would give very good references ).

But I am still concerned about my GPA. What do you think, can I be accepted to a PhD program?

Also, can I apply for both MSc and PhD or will they think that I am a fickle person and don't accept me for neither of them?

"I think I have got enough knowledge to do a PhD in genetics". No you do not, unless you start doing a PHD and see what actually doing a PHD is all about. — Alexandros, Jan 20 '15 at 11:48
Do you understand why your GPA is low, and have a plan for doing better on future studies? — Patricia Shanahan, Jan 20 '15 at 16:54
I agree with Patricia Shanahan. Your GPA is...you know not good enough. it is very possible that you won't even get through the first selection stage, I am afraid. I am sorry if my comment is too strong. — kitty, Jan 20 '15 at 17:08
Also, have you asked the potential references for their views on whether and where to apply? — Patricia Shanahan, Jan 20 '15 at 17:11
"very good in lab" is not even remotely sufficient for doing a PhD. Proper theoretical understanding is needed to even design the experiments you are very good at doing. I.e., you run a tremendous risk of doing experiments that are carried out well, but do not allow conclusions. => Unless your GPA has "external" causes such as exam anxiety the master's is where you can get yourself fit for the PhD. If you concude that exlusively doing labwork is your calling, go for a technician-like job at least for a while. If you then discover you'd like to dip into theory, you can still do a PhD. — cbeleites unhappy with SX, Jan 20 '15 at 17:57
Even in Turkey, with your GPA you can't apply any PhD program (according to YÖK regulations) without doing your masters. Besides you don't have any ALES and YDS points, I assume you don't have any published article in respected journals. It doesn't hurt to try but, I don't think being foreign helps you getting accepted to graduate programs. — , Feb 24 '18 at 15:01

Piotr Migdal · Answer 1 · 2015-01-20T18:10:21.457

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Some places in continental Europe can accept people with BSc but without MSc (but most - don't). In UK and US, MSc is a part of PhD, so typically you do don't need one to start.

But you ALWAYS need to consult a particular university/institute, as rules vary (and especially with treating foreign diplomas).

However, if your "GPA sucks" then, unless you have a strong research track (i.e. strong recommendation letters from your research internships, published papers) special exceptions may by unlikely.

edited Jan 20 '15 at 18:10

answered Jan 20 '15 at 12:33

Piotr Migdal

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Many places in continental Europe require an MSc to apply for a PhD. – Massimo Ortolano Jan 20 '15 at 12:37
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Most PhDs in the UK require you to have an MSc or equivalent. As far as I know only those at doctoral training centres will normally accept people without a masters. – nivag Jan 20 '15 at 13:27
@MassimoOrtolano Most do, some don't. – Piotr Migdal Jan 20 '15 at 14:11
Some places may make an exception from the MSc requirement if the applicant instead takes an exam proving knowledge equivalent to what would be expected for MScs. Which puts the OP back to the question of GPA... – cbeleites unhappy with SX Jan 20 '15 at 17:38

score 1 · Answer 2 · answered Jan 20 '15 at 14:53

Written from my perspective and potentially varying in different countries but...

It is certainly possible to do a PhD without doing a MSc (I'm currently coming to the end of my PhD at a UK university and I applied straight from undergraduate). In my experience it is unusual though, possibly for good reason. You don't say why you don't want to do a Masters, but it's probably worth pointing out that if you are able to get a good MSc then it is likely to greatly help both your chances of getting a PhD and your academic development. The learning curve from undergraduate to PhD without a MSc can be a steep one, particularly in terms of managing your own time and activities.

If you have decent undergraduate grades (mine were ok but certainly nothing special), experience in a research environment and can convince whoever is making the decision about the application that you will be able to work well independently then I don't think there are any definite barriers against getting on a PhD. You may however find it difficult to compete with other applicants who have Masters degrees, since they have more definite proof of their ability to do independent, focussed research.

I'd suggest it's worth applying to PhD's if you feel that they are a good fit for both your interests and your experience, provided they don't absolutely require a MSc (for funding purposes etc). The worst that can happen is being turned down and you get some practice crafting applications. Obviously there is a time cost to this however so I'd advise being selective with your choices, only applying where you feel you have a real chance. This may also allow you to apply to some MSc programmes without having to worry too much about conflicting applications.

Hope that helps.

score 1 · Answer 3 · edited Apr 13 '17 at 12:49

In the US, students often go straight from a BS to a Ph.D. But many graduate schools e.g. UC Berkeley have a college- or university-wide minimum GPA of 3.0. This has been discussed a bit on a previous SE thread: Minimum GPA?

The bottom line is that with a 2.5 or 2.6 GPA, you'll be ineligible for many PhD programs and you will not be a strong candidate for the others. Great letters can compensate for a 3.2 or 3.3 GPA, but rarely if ever will help much below 3.0. In your case, a masters degree may be a necessary step to partially compensate for the undergraduate grade point while building up research experience that will make you a more competitive candidate.

score 0 · Answer 4 · answered Jan 20 '15 at 16:36

In the US, its quite common to go from BS to PhD. When I entered grad-school for a masters degree most of the other students assumed I was a PhD student.

The general consensus I found in grad-school was that the university preferred PhD students as they had committed for 3-5 years of doing research for very little pay, and the ones that couldn't cut it could "drop into" a masters program. Master's students (like myself) had difficultly finding assistantships as they were "taking them away" from PhD students.

While a low GPA is not good, you can make up for it by getting great GRE scores and making sure your letters of recommendation are super. Not every PhD student has a 4.0 GPA coming in. If you have good recommendations, I would consider applying to a university as a PhD student (many schools will not allow you to apply to 2 different programs).

Especially consider applying to schools your recommenders work for or closely with. Also consider trying to get a full-time position at one of your internships where you'd work closely with researchers. This will allow you to strengthen your application for next year if you are not accepted.

Can I do a PhD without MSc?

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