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I took 14 years to finish my Ph.D. Mostly this was due to a health problem (now cured); partly it was because I bit off too large a research problem. It's done now, though, and I'm applying for an academic/research position.

I'm embarrassed to write 2008–2022 in the column next to the line that describes my Ph.D. And I'm wary of mentioning a health problem in a C.V. What's the best way I can frame it? Could I put only the year of completion? Mention only the last 7 years? Small type?

Tiger
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    Similar: https://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/112478/how-can-i-list-on-my-cv-that-i-graduated-from-college-in-3-years/112494#112494 – Anonymous Physicist Sep 05 '22 at 19:27
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    https://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/19698/is-listing-non-academic-interests-on-academic-cvs-important/19699#19699 – Anonymous Physicist Sep 05 '22 at 19:29
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    PhD award over age 45 is not rare. https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsf22300/assets/data-tables/tables/nsf22300-tab027.pdf – Anonymous Physicist Sep 05 '22 at 19:52
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    Mine took ten years and about three weeks. The three weeks were a gift from the dean, who waived the "ten years and out" requirement. I was also teaching full time, and that, of course, is also on my CV. – Bob Brown Sep 05 '22 at 21:42
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    Congratulations on finishing your Ph.D. Being able to put a Ph.D. on your CV is a good thing, not something that needs to be apologized for. – John Coleman Sep 06 '22 at 11:57
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    If you're working full-time while studying, then there's no shame in any amount of time it takes to finish. Tell people you did your PhD on the side while you worked, and not a single employer on Earth would think anything of the long time. – Jerome Sep 06 '22 at 19:43
  • Most people involved in academia and research will understand that there are many reasons why a PhD can be delayed. The fact that you took 14 years but still completed it speaks to patience and resilience. Brian May took 30 years to finish his and he's doing all right. – GB supports the mod strike Sep 09 '22 at 05:53

5 Answers5

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As has been mentioned a few times on this site, your CV is for facts about your career. Health, and other things that are not very directly career related, should be left out.

I only list the completion dates of my degrees on my CV. However, listing only a completion date does nothing to hide the duration of the degree; you did something before you started your PhD, and that should have a completion date listed. If you had some other job during your PhD, you might list that.

In academia, your publications count far more than the length of your PhD. Speaking from experience: I completed my PhD faster than 99% of physical science PhDs, and exactly zero academics care about that fact (it was good for my bank account).

If you are asked about the 14 year period, you can simply say "My studies were interrupted for personal reasons which are no longer relevant." You can provide more detail if you like; while your health problem may have been rare, health problems are common and people understand they are not voluntary. I would not want to work for an employer who would choose not to hire me because of my past health problems, both common and rare. Regardless of the wording you use, articulate that the problem you had will not recur.

Anonymous Physicist
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    Ah, this sounds very good. For the first 11 years, I was also doing professional work, and that'll be in my C.V., too, so that should fill the gap. – Tiger Sep 05 '22 at 22:36
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    @Tiger Don't lie in your CV. If your PhD took 11 years and you say it took 3 years and manage to hide the gaps, your future employer might figure it out (he's not dumb, and he might want to contact your former PhD supervisor). If your future employer figures out that you lied, you won't get a job. – Stef Sep 06 '22 at 07:50
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    @Stef Judging by what I get done besides working professionally (which is next to zero) the OP's PhD took effectively 3 yeas and a bit ;-). More seriously, it's possible that the OP realized they need to focus on the PhD in order to get it done in a way that was not possible while working, which is why they didn't work during the past three years. (I agree not to lie, of course. It was just a remark that popped up in my head. Perhaps there is a way to say "finishing the PhD" for the last 3 years or so.) – Peter - Reinstate Monica Sep 06 '22 at 07:52
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    Depending on where you live (or are looking for work), some countries have laws regarding the questions that can be asked about health issues at interview. – Jack Aidley Sep 06 '22 at 08:42
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    @Stef I'm not thinking of lying. The idea is to say that I finished my Ph.D. in 2022 (true) and in the experience section to describe intermittent professional work 2008–2019 (also true). Would that be interpreted as a lie? – Tiger Sep 06 '22 at 10:16
  • @Tiger: in the experience section to describe intermittent professional work 2008–2019 (also true) --- There might be problem if you were formally enrolled as a Ph.D. student (or had some similar such formal connection with the program/department/supervisor that might apply) during 2008–2019. – Dave L Renfro Sep 06 '22 at 13:16
  • @Tiger Not necessarily a lie, but also unnecessary obfuscation - if your CV says that you were also working from 2008 onwards, the most obvious assumption for why your PhD took from 2008 to 2022 is that you were balancing it with work. – GB supports the mod strike Sep 09 '22 at 05:56
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You can just list the completion year. You will have to account somehow for what you were doing in the interim - perhaps that was a job so you could support yourself.

Ethan Bolker
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There's no shame in your PhD taking 14 years.

As someone who reviews CVs on a regular basis for hiring decisions, I'd actually see this as a sign that you're persistent and capable of finishing something massive even in the face of difficulties.

I don't think anyone (reasonable) would see this as a negative thing, even if it wasn't due to health reasons.

At the end of the day, a PhD is a marathon, not a sprint. The actual research doesn't necessarily have to be that hard. What completing it demonstrates is persistence and the ability to gradually churn out a really good piece of work with a consistent abmount of effort over a very long period of time.

ScottishTapWater
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  • And how is a decade-plus PhD viewed for academic hiring? – Elizabeth Henning Sep 06 '22 at 18:25
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    @ElizabethHenning - Nobody cares, your thesis and published research should speak for itself – ScottishTapWater Sep 06 '22 at 21:55
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    a PhD is a marathon, not a sprint. Well, perhaps, but finishing a marathon in 14 hours is not quite the same as finishing it in 3, is it? If you mean to suggest that the number of years that one takes to finish a PhD is a completely irrelevant number, the marathon isn’t a very good analogy to reach for. – Dan Romik Sep 07 '22 at 03:25
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    @DanRomik - It depends really... Most people don't run marathons for the sake of actually getting the fastest time, they run them to demonstrate that they can. It might not be a perfect anology but it holds true in that nobody cares how long it takes you to finish it, it's still impressive that you did – ScottishTapWater Sep 07 '22 at 09:56
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    @ScottishTapWater yes, it’s impressive that you run a marathon. But it’s clearly less impressive if you took an extremely long time to do it, and it’s disingenuous to claim otherwise. – Dan Romik Sep 07 '22 at 14:21
  • @DanRomik What do you call the guy that takes 14 years to get his PhD (or MD)? Doctor. – Elliott Frisch Sep 07 '22 at 23:28
  • @ElliottFrisch I don’t understand the question, can you clarify? – Dan Romik Sep 08 '22 at 00:33
  • @DanRomik Getting a Doctorate makes one a Doctor. There is no qualifier as to how long it took. Marathons are 26.2 miles; a set distance to race. Dissertations aren't races. And there is no obligate length. – Elliott Frisch Sep 08 '22 at 03:19
  • @ElliottFrisch sure, getting a doctorate makes one a doctor. I never suggested otherwise, so it’s not clear to me what about my previous comments you find objectionable. – Dan Romik Sep 08 '22 at 06:53
  • @DanRomik - Are you just attacking the anology or the point I was trying to make with it? – ScottishTapWater Sep 08 '22 at 08:51
  • @ScottishTapWater I wouldn’t say I was “attacking” anything, but to clarify my criticism: I just don’t see what useful information the sentiment “A PhD is a marathon not a sprint” is conveying in the context of this question. Both sprints and marathons, as well as PhDs, have the property that if a person takes an extremely long time to complete them then some people will find the achievement less impressive or even entirely unimpressive. So your analogy between PhDs and marathons, even if it is a reasonable one, just seems like a non sequitur that doesn’t help OP with their question. – Dan Romik Sep 08 '22 at 14:31
  • I can see your point with regard to the analogy itself, but I really don't think anyone with any understanding of acadaemia or how it works considers it to be less impressive if it takes you longer to finish your PhD... Your thesis should speak for itself – ScottishTapWater Sep 08 '22 at 16:45
  • @ScottishTapWater Of course they do. From an academic hiring point of view, a thesis is a predictor of future achievement. Someone who's just completed a PhD in X years will presumably be able to achieve at least as much in terms of research in the next X years. Obviously the quality of the research is important, but so is the timescale. – Especially Lime Sep 09 '22 at 11:17
  • @EspeciallyLime That's certainly not the experience I've had or those who I've spoken to. We shouldn't be encouraging publish or perish... At the end of the day, how long it takes for some research to be produced is pretty irrelevant, the important thing is the quality of the research – ScottishTapWater Sep 09 '22 at 12:14
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Add a section on research experience and then describe the kind projects you have done during those 13 years, like

  • 2008-2011 We carried out research on ...
  • 2012-2015 We worked on some problem... etc...

Likewise you can add different sections like teaching experience where you can describe the same years again that you taught (as a TA maybe).

You can also break your 13 years into two or more segments and say that first five years you worked as a project assistant or research assistant, etc..

But make sure to add as much rigor as possible for those 13 years so that it doesn't look like you have or have been wasted.

user31694
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Definitely don't mention a health problem in your CV. As a general rule, health issues count against your application. It's not that universities or research institutes are full of monsters who trash every application from someone with health problems; rather, it's simply that they receive the maximum benefit from hiring the most productive person they can. This is the way the incentives are laid out. If you have two equivalently credentialed candidates applying for a job, and one has health issues, the sick one will be perceived as having less potential for productivity. Even if you assert that you are fully cured, your evaluators might wonder if you could really put a yearslong affliction behind you so easily.

As for the length of your PhD, I am less concerned about the 14 years and more concerned about the embarassed attitude you seem to have. This attutide will surely hurt you more than the mere length of your PhD. In my experience, if you make something out to be a big deal yourself, people tend to respond by treating it as a big deal. If you come off as going out of your way to conceal the length of your PhD, that looks terrible. If you come out of the gate on the defense trying to explain away the 14 years in terms of circumstances beyond your control, you will probably remain on the defense for the whole application process. These are the things you seem to be trying to do.

However, if your appliation materials make you seem like someone who wanted a faculty/reasearch job so badly that you put in the time to earn a competitive body of work, you will look like a dedicated professional. If you sound like someone who didn't want to move on until you felt mature enough to be a leader, you will sound wise and prudent. Just make sure that you carefully finesse this narrative in your application and interviews (because if you are too overt you still sound like you are making a big deal out of your PhD length).

Bear in mind that a 14-year PhD also says that your PI liked you enough to continue funding you for so long instead of pushing you out the door.

ultracold
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  • This is some good advice! Indeed my experience has given me many strengths to bring to my next job. My advisor is actually well known for interesting dissertations that people actually read as well as many-year Ph.D.s. I especially appreciate your remark about going "on defense". I'll be putting the positives front and center. – Tiger Sep 08 '22 at 17:31
  • Perceiving someone with any disability--including a long-term or chronic medical condition--as having less potential for productivity is in fact ableist and illegal. Antidiscrimination laws exists especially to protect people from "rational" discrimination. – Elizabeth Henning Sep 08 '22 at 21:18
  • @ElizabethHenning: I seem to have been using "ableism" incorrectly, so I edited my response. Legal protections for the sick/disabled vary dramatically across countries, and even where these laws exist, they barely matter for academic/research job applications. Evaluators can conjure up countless excuses for rejecting an unhealthy applicant without mentioning illness. – ultracold Sep 09 '22 at 05:12
  • @ElizabethHenning: Incidentally, I am an academic with a disability, so I am wary of conveying that my field is brimming with acceptance when I have learned the hard way that is not the case. In my experience, academia's veneer of inclusion has done little more than make people keep their prejudices about the sick and disabled to themselves. In practice, the burden often falls on the sick/disabled to prove they are equivalent to able-bodied candidates. – ultracold Sep 09 '22 at 05:13